Religion as Game Theory

No matter what topic I write about on this blog, most of my comments sections evolve into a heated debate about the relative merits of Islam. This is partly because tensions between certain Muslim nations and the United States are at an all time high and have an impact on world politics. It is also because one of my readers has devoted a good portion of his time to tracking every perceived slip made by a Muslim anywhere in the world. He documents these slips regularly in the comments section of this blog.

So it was with great interest that I stumbled upon an article in Time magazine by Robert Wright. Wright, as it turns out, is the primary mover and shaker behind a favorite web site of mine, BloggingHeads.tv, where two people, usually authors, record a webcam teleconference between themselves and we get to watch them debate. This Time article was an excerpt from Wright’s latest book The Evolution of God. It’s always a thrill when you read an article that fits neatly into your world view and this one did just that.

Wright uses a concept from game theory, the zero-sum game, to explain the changing “moods” of God throughout scripture, both Judeo-Christian and Muslim. Essentially, his thesis is that when religious interpreters had a zero-sum approach, i.e. one man’s gain is another man’s loss, the result was an intolerant religion and an intolerant God. On the flipside, when a non-zero-sum approach prevailed, religious tolerance was the result.

The ancient Israelites got straightforward guidance from Scripture on how to handle people who didn’t worship Israel’s god, Yahweh. “You shall annihilate them — the Hittites and the Amorites, the Canaanites and the Perizzites, the Hivites and the Jebusites — just as the Lord your God has commanded.”

The point of this exercise, explained the Book of Deuteronomy, was to make sure the “abhorrent” religions of nearby peoples didn’t rub off on Israelites.

Yet sometimes the Israelites were happy to live in peace with neighbors who worshipped alien gods. In the Book of Judges, an Israelite military leader proposes a live-and-let-live arrangement with the Ammonites: “Should you not possess what your god Chemosh gives you to possess? And should we not be the ones to possess everything that our god Yahweh has conquered for our benefit?”

The Bible isn’t the only Scripture with such vacillations between belligerence and tolerance. Muslims, who like Christians and Jews worship the God who revealed himself to Abraham, are counseled in one part of the Koran to “kill the polytheists wherever you find them.” But another part prescribes a different stance toward unbelievers, “To you be your religion; to me my religion.”

In the case of the Judeo-Christian tradition, Wright traces the vacillation between tolerance and intolerance back to Solomon:

Solomon believed Israel could benefit — economically and otherwise — by staying on good terms with nearby nations. As game theorists say, he saw relations with other nations as non-zero-sum; the fortunes of Israel and other nations were positively correlated, so outcomes could be win-win or lose-lose. His warmth toward those religions was a way of making the win-win outcome more likely.

Again and again in the Bible, this perception of non-zero-sumness underlies religious tolerance. This doesn’t mean religious tolerance is always consciously calculated. The human mind does lots of subterranean work to pave the way for social success. But whether the calculation is conscious or not, people are more open to the religious beliefs of other people if they sense a non-zero-sum dynamic.

Wright goes on to discuss those who followed Solomon and how polytheism was increasingly viewed as a threat. As monotheism took hold, so did religious intolerance. As paranoia increased, so did intolerance:

In 586 B.C.E., Israelite élites were exiled to Babylon after conquest by the neo-Babylonian Empire. In passages from Isaiah that are thought to have been written during the exile, Yahweh says unequivocally, “Besides me there is no god.” Does this extreme intolerance of other gods — the denial of their very existence — flow from a zero-sum view of Israel’s environs?

It would seem so. The author of these monotheistic passages (known by scholars as second Isaiah, to distinguish him from the author of earlier chapters in Isaiah) sees an Israel long tormented by “oppressors” who are due for a comeuppance. The punishment that Isaiah envisions for these enemies seems to include subjugation and, as a bonus, the news that their gods don’t exist. Isaiah’s God promises the Israelites that, come the apocalypse, people from Egypt and elsewhere will “come over in chains and bow down to you. They will make supplication to you, saying, ‘God is with you alone, and there is no other; there is no God besides him.'” So there.

Happily, after the exile, life got more non-zero-sum. The Babylonians who had conquered Israel were in turn conquered by the Persians, who returned the exiles to their homeland. Israel was no longer in a bad neighborhood. Nearby nations were now fellow members of the Persian Empire and so no longer threats. And, predictably, books of the Bible typically dated as postexilic, such as Ruth and Jonah, strike a warm tone toward peoples — Moabites and Assyrians — that in pre-exilic times had been vilified.

This zig-zag between the win-win and win-lose attitude was not limited to Judaism.

Muhammad’s preaching career started in Mecca around 613 C.E., and he seems to have had hopes of drawing Jews and Christians into a common faith. In the Koran — which Muslims consider the word of God as spoken by Muhammad — the Prophet’s followers are told to say to fellow Abrahamics, “Our God and your God is one.”

This hope of playing a win-win game shows up in overtures to Jews in particular, made mainly after Muhammad moved to the city of Medina and became its political and religious leader. Muhammad decided his followers should have an annual 24-hour fast, as Jews did on Yom Kippur. He even called it Yom Kippur — at least he used the term some Arabian Jews were using for Yom Kippur. The Jewish ban on eating pork was mirrored in a Muslim ban. Muhammad also told his followers to pray facing Jerusalem. He said God, in his “prescience,” chose “the children of Israel … above all peoples.”

As for Christians: having denounced polytheists who believed Allah had daughters, Muhammad couldn’t now embrace the idea that Jesus was God’s son. But he came close. He said Jesus was “the Messiah … the Messenger of God, and His Word … a Spirit from Him.” God, according to the Koran, gave Jesus the Gospel and “put into the hearts of those who followed him kindness and compassion.”

However, Muhammad sensed rejection from Jews and Christians alike and this altered his view of any possible win-win relationship:

In his new, zero-sum mode, Muhammad changed the direction of prayer from Jerusalem to Mecca. According to Islamic tradition, he expelled three tribes of Jews from Medina — and killed the adult males in the third tribe, which was suspected of collaborating with Meccans in a battle against Medina.

After Muhammad’s death the concept of Jihad emerged (intolerance) but later was softened to encompass a greater jihad or a “struggle within oneself toward goodness” as Wright puts it. Again a move from intolerance to tolerance. Wright’s excerpt concludes by re-iterating the win-win that can be found in both Judaism and Islam:

Isaiah (first Isaiah, not the Isaiah of the exile) envisioned a day when God “shall arbitrate for many peoples” and “nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.” And in a Koranic verse dated by scholars to the final years of Muhammad’s life, God tells humankind that he has “made you into nations and tribes, so that you might come to know one another.”

This happy ending is hardly assured. It can take time for people, having seen that they are playing a non-zero-sum game, to adjust their attitudes accordingly. And this adaptation may never happen if barriers of mistrust persist.

But at least we can quit talking as if this adaptation were impossible — as if intolerance and violence were inevitable offshoots of monotheism. At least we can quit asking whether Islam — or Judaism or any other religion — is a religion of peace. The answer is no. And yes. It says so in the Bible, and in the Koran.

Wright, who in his Bloggingheads.tv discussion of The Evolution of  God, says he has an affinity for Buddhism, confirms in this Time excerpt exactly what I have believed about organized religion. Religion is informed by politics as much as it is informed by the “word of God”. A religion’s tendency toward peace or terrorism is  a by product of its interpreters and those interpreters were shaped by the times in which they lived.

Islam, Christianity and Judaism encompass the greatest expressions of love and the most savage expressions of evil. Such must be the case as religion is the expression of God skewed through the imperfect lens of human beings.

Respectfully,
Rutherford

If you would like to hear Wright discuss his book and you have an hour to invest, I strongly recommend that you visit Bloggingheads.tv. His discussion ends with a section called “Quantum physics and king-sized video games as paths to God” in which he argues that atheism is more or less an ignorant refusal to wrestle with the wonder that is our world and the possibility that even if we say this life is a “simulation”, then what do we label the author of the simulation, the “hacker” so to speak? Wouldn’t that be God?

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378 thoughts on “Religion as Game Theory

  1. * social relations involving intrigue to gain authority or power;
    * the profession devoted to governing and to political affairs
    * the activities and affairs involved in managing a state or a government;

    I’m conservative through and through, but I recognize that there is a distinct difference between ‘religion’ and ‘faith’. Religion has always been the structure through which to control/manage the faithful. Faith is trust in that those advising on the legal strictures know what they are talking about and are acting in the interest of the faithful. These don’t tend to coincide very often…

  2. What a fascinating perspective! I do think that factors in the modern world influence the zero-sum or collaborative game as well – similarly.

    1. Fear or desire for cumuppance of enemies creates and us/them mentality – and Judaism has always been worried as much about assimilation as about conquest of the peoples. Similarly, we see concerns about assimilation by fundamentalist muslims, orthodox jews, ardent catholics and even political regimes today. The threat that can lead to zero-sum need not be militaristic. It can be cultural.

    2. When Mohammed became the prophet of the muslim faith, he did adopt many of the edicts of judaism. Indeed, to this day, when in doubt, eat hallal meat. But, that’s the same model used for centuries after – and now by Microsoft in their famous mantra .. Embrace and Extend. To gain followers, it is best to embrace their current belief and extend it in a new direction. Jews for Jesus, Latter Day Saints – all good conversion organizations know this is the only way to get real traction.

    Meanwhile, once you reach critical mass, you can start seperating the group, and behave in a zero-sum way.

    Rutherford, while I understand your trepidation about organized religion – and am hardly an active participant myself – I will offer up another vantage point. The catholic church, the latter day saints, the Lubavitch and the muslim, buddhist and hindu counterparts to these organizations are examples of the largest most diverse most longstanding “companies” in human history. Our mutual experience with one of the largest companies on earth today serves as a good mental alternative. Knowing how utterly jacked up a GE, GM, HP, or Tata corporation is, on the inside, isn’t it fascinating that these giant non-profit entities have persisted through the ages, and been remarkably successful? Through – AMAZING – amounts of stupidity?

    I like to study them for organizational behavior reasons… that makes it much more fun. In fact, I may blog that.

  3. “After Muhammad’s death the concept of Jihad emerged (intolerance) but later was softened to encompass a greater jihad or a “struggle within oneself toward goodness” as Wright puts it.”

    Now thats a load of crap.

    “It is also because one of my readers has devoted a good portion of his time to tracking every perceived slip made by a Muslim anywhere in the world. He documents these slips regularly in the comments section of this blog.”

    So brutalizing non muslims is a “slip”. Is that what multiculturlaists call oppression and murder of non muslims nowadays?

  4. “are counseled in one part of the Koran to “kill the polytheists wherever you find them.” But another part prescribes a different stance toward unbelievers, “To you be your religion; to me my religion.”

    That is true. Mo tried to appear as peaceful during the begging of his carreer when muslims were small and weak. Once his gained the advantage, thats when he got more violent and oppressive.

    Thats why the quran is basically divided in 2 parts. The Mecca verses and Medina. The Mecca verses are the early more peaceful parts and the Mediina are the more violent, intolerant and violent passages. In Medina is when Mo took up the sword for islam. And a fun fact. The islamic calender doesnt begin when Mo was born or died. Doesnt begin when Mo founded islam. It begins when he took up the sword for islam.

    And of course the Medina verses abrogate the Mecca verses because they came latter

  5. “Islam, Christianity and Judaism encompass the greatest expressions of love and the most savage expressions of evil. Such must be the case as religion is the expression of God skewed through the imperfect lens of human beings.”

    I knew you couldnt close without moral relativism.

    So what you are saying is Jesus and Mo equally encompassed both good and evil? Simple question really.

  6. And Red Pill wonders why I despise the Palis.

    http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/026874.php#respond

    In case you are wondering, its a video of a reenactment of a mother preparing for a homicide bombing mission in front of her kid on a children’s tv show. I have yet to ever get a response from a Pali supporter or sympathizer on any of these clips from the Hamas Children’s show. Maybe this will be a first.

  7. Interesting blog entry, Rutherford.

    Anytime the Rabbit spouts off on religion it sounds like Rutherford’s shallow analysis of Obama’s economic policy, but here it goes anyways. Note that I’m not really responding to what you wrote because other then finding it interesting, I just don’t have the intellectual ability to add to the discussion.

    The Rabbit is announcing that he’s in the market for a pill that will make him believe. Unlike heathen atheists such as Curator or Elric, I hate not being a believer. I would take out a second mortgage to believe Jesus was the son of God who died on the cross for our sins.

    No doubt, my world is full of wonder and curiosity at the stars at night. I feel those moments of goose-bump love when, say, an autistic kid finally gets a few minutes to play in a sanctioned basketball game after years of being a towel boy and reins down seven 3 point shots in a row in front of teary eyed, screaming fans.

    The only time I felt a higher power was when I was taking a piss on the side of the road in the middle of nowhere in Iceland. It lasted 10 seconds. Thus, I’m at best a pantheist, a nature worshiper and a heretic like my Baltic cousins only a few centuries ago. And a fleeting one at that.

    There are so many humps in Christianity that I can’t get over. So many reasons I can’t let go and rely on faith.

    Tex said the following, “if you are a follower of Christ, good works should be a part of your character. However, your own works would never be good enough to get you to the admittance of heaven because you would still have a sinful nature. I know many that I would define as good people that are still lost.”

    Yet, isn’t the believer of Christ also a sinner just as the nonbeliever who happens to be a good person? So all things being equal, real admittance to heaven relies solely on the belief of God.

    Rabbit can only draw a couple of conclusions from this:

    1. God is a jealous God. A narcissist much like Xerxes or Nero.
    2. God’s motives are beyond my logic, yet it is logic that God went out of his way and endowed me with. Thus, God is an unfair God.

    So, I will follow the living example and words of Jesus to the best of my ability and end up in hell where the imperfect Rabbit will probably belong. In hell, Rabbit will meet some of the nicest souls who ever walked earth. Perhaps I will burn with Gandhi? Or the some of the Navajo who fought so bravely in WW2?

    And, it will be Tex, in heaven, who will have to ignore this fact while reaping the benefits of eternal bliss.

    Perhaps he will choose to be cast out like you know who.

  8. Now thats a load of crap.

    LOL Elric is that the best you can do?

    And of course the Medina verses abrogate the Mecca verses because they came later

    What a convenient cop-out on your part. So the New Testament abrogates the Old Testament? Nonsense.

    So what you are saying is Jesus and Mo equally encompassed both good and evil? Simple question really.

    This is not a debate about Muhammad vs Jesus. This is a question of the Bible and the Koran, of one set of religious teachings/views vs another. As Wright painstakingly documents in his article, both books present both a belligerent and a tolerant point of view.

  9. Lily,
    Thanks for an equally fascinating analysis of the piece.

    The threat that can lead to zero-sum need not be militaristic. It can be cultural.

    Absolutely and it is this zero-sum view from a cultural perspective that makes some people adamantly against what they call “multi-culturalism”.

    The Microsoft analogy of “Embrace and Extend” blew me away. Fantastic. You are so right that this is the cornerstone of any type of successful conversion strategy (or marketing campaign to put it in business terms). Demonstrate to people how what they currently know and do can be leveraged into doing something different.

    I would argue that the resilience of religious organizations vs typical corporate businesses is that religions sell salvation and a guide to better moral living. A far more potent “product” than anything Microsoft, IBM or KFC could ever sell!

  10. “LOL Elric is that the best you can do?”

    Nope I could do better but whats the point? Mo’s and the caliphates own words and deeds are meaningless to ppl like Dodger.

    “What a convenient cop-out on your part. So the New Testament abrogates the Old Testament? Nonsense.”

    Actually it does for Christians when two verses conflict. You can ask Tex on that. Its common sense really. Later laws that conflict with earlier laws take precedent.

    “This is not a debate about Muhammad vs Jesus.”

    Yes it is because the two religions come down to the 2 men that founded them. They set the precedent on how the religion was meant to be practiced.

  11. Rutherford –

    I would argue that the resilience of religious organizations vs typical corporate businesses is that religions sell salvation and a guide to better moral living. A far more potent “product” than anything Microsoft, IBM or KFC could ever sell!”

    Well, perhaps. But, have you seen a fraction of the inner workings? This whole inquisition of nuns in the USA? The LDS operations case studies? This is not amateur hour at the Boy Scout troop – these organizations are structured. There are best practices. It is both terrifying and extremely fascinating. Like seeing the sausage get made.

    I actually love it… in part because it is rare to have that level of dedication and passion put into any other organization by millions of people. That alone creates a model for how much we can accomplish. On the other hand, the politics are just as strong, which creates rifts and secessions and reminds us of our humanity. People really should study these organizations more… if they could.

  12. Rabbit can only draw a couple of conclusions from this:

    1. God is a jealous God. A narcissist much like Xerxes or Nero.
    2. God’s motives are beyond my logic, yet it is logic that God went out of his way and endowed me with. Thus, God is an unfair God.

    WOW. Rabbit, you’ve just stated one of the major “problems” I have with the notion of God. Beyond that, your comment is incredibly powerful. Unlike you, I don’t long for conversion. I am comfortable saying “I don’t know” and to be honest, I find those who say they do, either deluded or arrogant. The one way in which I think I’ve grown as a human being is I no longer find them malicious, as I did in my youth. I’ve come to accept that religion gives people comfort and a guide to how to live a better life. It’s just not for me.

    P.S. I have it on inside information that Elric is Protestant. You would have been better off throwing the atheist label at Red Pill, since I believe he said so in a comment elsewhere on this blog. :-)

  13. Had a feeling Dodger wouldnt have touched post number 6. Probably because they mentioned jihad and it wasnt about some “inner struggle” as apologists like to say. It was meant in the context of war as how mo-bomb-ed used the term jihad. :-)

  14. Had a feeling Dodger wouldnt have touched post number 6.

    Goodness gracious Elric … post number 6 came in less than an hour ago! You remind me of my wife’s co-workers who send her an e-mail and then immediately IM her to ask if she read it yet. ROTFLMAO! Fact is I should be doing other stuff right now (my day job attempting to make a buck) but I can’t resist the urge to read the comments that are coming in. The fact you are getting any comments from me at all right now is a testament to my lack of job-related discipline.

    OK, post #6 … did not watch it and won’t. A few weeks ago you posted about some “children’s animal character” on Hamas TV (I use that term for lack of a better one).and I double checked with my wife (who is much better read than I) and she confirmed that these anti-Jewish propaganda shows aimed at children do exist.

    I think it is utterly disgusting. But again, Palestinians wouldn’t be the first bunch of folks to poison the minds of their children. The song from South Pacific (“You’ve Got to Be Carefully Taught”) says it all.

  15. “Palestinians wouldn’t be the first bunch of folks to poison the minds of their children.”

    LOL Didnt think you would condemn it without some moral realitizm. Cant condemn a culture without condemning something else, right? :-)

  16. I do have to admit that comparison of a song from the 1950’s to a government run program aimed at kids is weak even for you Dodger. If thats all you have then well……. :-)

  17. Your problem is you single out one set of people for behavior that is not unique to them. Where were you when minors were carrying racially insulting signs during the Obama campaign? Where did those kids learn to do that?

  18. “Your problem is you single out one set of people for behavior that is not unique to them.”

    LOL Well guess what? They freely, democratically elected Hamas. So to say its not “unique” is flatly wrong.

    “Where were you when minors were carrying racially insulting signs during the Obama campaign?”

    I didnt see any where I lived.

    “Where did those kids learn to do that?”

    The race baiting Democrat party?

  19. “I am comfortable saying “I don’t know” and to be honest, I find those who say they do, either deluded or arrogant.” -Rutherford

    I couldn’t disagree with that insane blanket statement more. In my life, the most humble and helpful people I have ever met were Christians.

    Come on man, just look at the charity raised throughout the world because of these “deluded and arrogant” people.

    I’m not talking about the small percentage of politically obsessed and vocal Christians. I’m talking about the humble families in my parish. The little old ladies who make the food for our wakes. You don’t seem to know these people exist.

    It is because of “deluded and arrogant” people that I’ve been put in touch with a Rwandan 7 year old boy, a world away from my own, and offered the oppurtunity to make sure he has food and clothing.

    When I went through those miscarriages, it was the Presbyterian community that sent me so many letters and told me “don’t sweat it” if I wasn’t keeping the grade book up to date.

    And Elric is right. The New Testament does take precedent over the old because it is the fulfilling of a prophecy. Even I know that.

    The Koran seems to move in the opposite direction, to some extent.

    Plus, the proof is in the pudding. Islamic extremism is just ridiculously more prevalent and dangerous then any other religious extremism on Earth right now. To pretend that isn’t the case is laughable.

  20. “Goodness gracious Elric … post number 6 came in less than an hour ago! You remind me of my wife’s co-workers who send her an e-mail and then immediately IM her to ask if she read it yet.”-Rutherford

    That is exactly why I think Elric insane. He’s like a toddler, screaming for instant gratification. He weakens his own points because of this. As if the time it takes to respond to one of his 30 posts somehow validates his own point. It’s so fricking weird. He essentially cries wolf nonstop which ultimately gets Rutherford off the hook when R does, in fact, dodge.

    Elric is an atheist. Why would he not proclaim Jesus?

  21. * social relations involving intrigue to gain authority or power;
    * the profession devoted to governing and to political affairs
    * the activities and affairs involved in managing a state or a government;

    Joe, interesting comment but what word or concept are you defining with your first three sentences? I am guessing the word is “politics”. Yes?

  22. DR I’m no authority on religion as has been proven time and time again, but one can believe in God and not believe Christ died for our sins. Hence, why do you declare Elric an atheist, other than to rile him (which of course I appreciate ;-) )

  23. “I actually love it… in part because it is rare to have that level of dedication and passion put into any other organization by millions of people.” Lilly

    You obviously have not heard/smelled the whiskey breath snoring at a St. Dunstan’s mass on a hot, humid Sunday morning in late July.

  24. deluded and arrogant

    You misquote me dude. I did not say AND, I said OR and it makes a big difference. Why is being charitable, humble, kind and loving mutually exclusive with being deluded? Wasn’t Don Quixote noble in his efforts, but he was still tilting at windmills.

    The very reason I do not blanket condemn religion anymore (I used to) is that it does inspire people in many cases do some fantastic things. Just because I think a delusion is part of the inspiration does not negate the good that is done.

  25. And by the way, R, if you are claiming that Islam is just currently going through a “zero sum game” epoch due to present day geopolitics and economics, then you’re deluding yourself.

    There are 100 of millions of very poor Christians who are oppressed a million different ways.

    Following your logic, it would be the Zoroastrians and Baha’i’s in Iran or the Assyrians in Iraq blowing themselves with nail bombs at coffee shops. They should have the zero sum game theology right now.

    Then again, I could be incorrectly comprehending your point.

  26. “That is exactly why I think Elric insane. He’s like a toddler, screaming for instant gratification. He weakens his own points because of this. As if the time it takes to respond to one of his 30 posts somehow validates his own point. It’s so fricking weird. He essentially cries wolf nonstop which ultimately gets Rutherford off the hook when R does, in fact, dodge.”

    Im glad to see the insults are back. I guess you weren’t too sorry after all. :-)

  27. “You misquote me dude. I did not say AND, I said OR and it makes a big difference.”

    Fair enough. I read “AND”

    But being “deluded” and “not having a cosmic clue” are kissing cousins.

    Universe: What times is it?

    Christian: 6 o’clock. (Wrong)
    Rutherford: Hell if I know.

    Either way, I’m late for fucking work.

  28. “Uh huh. Whatever you say.”

    Just wanted to let you know I read that with a lisping valley girl voice.

  29. I’m amused…I wish Wickle could join the fray as it would make my job easier of covering the bases…

    But for right now, I will just say this. I will simply say that my faith (Christianity; Protestant married to a practicing and devout Catholic so we cover the bases) puts it on the line. I am aware of no other religion that is willing to say this is what is, this is what shall be – and be proven right time after time.

    In my own lifetime, I have watched the formations of Israel after 1900+ years. I have watched God bless Israel. I have witnessed the irrational hatred of Jews, who represent but a small fraction of the entire world hated from all corners of the earth. And if it weren’t for the Jews, I would struggle with my own faith. I’ll add more and be specific, but in reading every one of these passages, I feel led to provide two scriptures of my own answering a few of the questions, though they may not recognize it. Both ironically from the Old Testament and both well known.

    Isaiah 55:8
    “For My thoughts are not your thoughts, Nor are your ways My ways,” declares the LORD.

    Joshua 24:15, “But if serving the LORD seems undesirable to you, then choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods your forefathers served beyond the River, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you are living. But as for me and my household, we will serve the LORD.”

    There is only one God – and it is not the God of the Muslims. Of that, I am sure. :wink:

  30. Isaiah 55:8
    “For My thoughts are not your thoughts, Nor are your ways My ways,” declares the LORD.

    That’s the best passage I’ve ever heard. What if I was too stupid to understand it?

  31. Rabbit, :lol:

    You’re many things. Stupid isn’t one of them.

    All I’m trying to tell you is that we live in a fallen world – it is either not how it was originally intended, or if you believe like me there is far more than meets the eye and a far larger battle than what you and I could possibly experience. If you are to read the final chapters of the Book of the Revelation, you will note that history comes full circle. Upon Christ’s return, things will be as intended.

    My point is, there are many things none of us capable of understanding – His thoughts are not our thoughts and His ways not our ways. Things may seem to weak humans, me included, as possibly unnecessary, cruel, vicious, or unfair. However, as I’ve grown older I have become aware of many things that at one time seemed untrue or contradictory, only to discover later just how true they really were

    For instance, in what times do we learn and better ourselves and become stronger? When we are going through those periods where everything is going according to plan and times are good? Or do we learn more, grow more, and become stronger from adversity?

    Much like the muscles of your body, when we don’t face resistance, we atrophy and become weak and apathetic. I believe America is going through that stage right now. For a muscle to grow and become stronger, it must do strenuous work. During extended periods of rest, the muscles of your body actually atrophy and will die after a time. But the more you work your muscles, the stronger they become.

    However, if you weren’t human and knew nothing of the human body, that would appear counter-intuitive. The more you work the muscles, they quicker they should wear out – when just the opposite is really true.

    Make sense? And ironically, the more I learn of our universe, the dumber I feel.

  32. Wow. Scary. Amazingly appropriate metaphor , considering I’m downstairs doing sets right now!!!!!!!!!

  33. I already spend 30 mins writing up a comment for this post, only to have it disappear when I hit “Submit.” So here goes a second try.

    Rutherford: An interesting piece that I’m sure will topple your last in the comment numbers.

    An interesting tie-in to history is Alexander the Great.

    Part of what made Alexander so successful was that he allowed the people’s he conquered to maintain their religions. He even went 1 better and adopted those religions as part of his own personal pantheon. He respected the religions of others, and in turn, they respected him.

    The Romans are another example. When the Romans conquered a people, those people were allowed to worship their own gods. The only catch was that they also had to recognize the Roman gods. That was the root of the problems between Romans and Christains and Jews. It wasn’t that they were worshipping their own god, it was that they refused to recognize the Roman gods. They didn’t “play” by the rules.

    Historically, polytheists are more tollerant of other religions than monotheists. My personal belief on that is because polytheism, by its very nature, believes there to be multiple gods. That makes it very easy to beleve that other people have different gods from theirs.

    Elric: RE: #4: “Thats why the quran is basically divided in 2 parts”

    Just like the Bible is divided into 2 parts. With 1 part featuring a vengful god who smites and punishes, and the other featuring a loving god who forgives and rewards. (hey look—its a similarity)

    RE: #6: In my book that is child abuse.

    Much like racists in the US teaching hate to their children is child abuse.

    And what god do racists in the US use to justify their racist beliefs? What god gave the white man his Burden to subjugate all non-whites in order to civilize the savages? What god gave this land, that is being ruined by the evil Jews and their black enforcers, to the white man? Was it Allah?

    Yeah, I know. More of that pesky relativism.

    RE: #10: “Nope I could do better but whats the point?”

    This copout is becoming increasingly popular around here when people aren’t prepared to back up their BS.

    The point is that this is a place for discussion. If you aren’t prepared to support what you say, then maybe you shouldn’t bother saying it.

    RE: #19: “They freely, democratically elected Hamas.”

    Elric is a democrat. My proof is that the country he lives in democratically elected democrats to run that country. So, obviously, Elric supports democrats, and believes in the democratic party’s ideology.

    DR: I surprised Tex didn’t cover this.

    “So all things being equal, real admittance to heaven relies solely on the belief of God.”

    There is more to it than that. Real admittance only comes by asking God to forgive your sins. And anyone can ask for forgiveness. Mass murderers. Rapists. Child molesters. They all get a free pass simply by asking for forgiveness. Of course, they have to mean it. *wink, wink*

    That is why suicide is the “ultimate sin.” Because it is the only sin where the sinner cannot seek forgiveness—because that sinner is dead.

    Whew…. Now let’s hope it posts this time.

    (It didn’t. But I was smart and copied it before I hit Submit)

  34. Elric: RE: #4: “Thats why the quran is basically divided in 2 parts”

    Just like the Bible is divided into 2 parts. With 1 part featuring a vengful god who smites and punishes, and the other featuring a loving god who forgives and rewards. (hey look—its a similarity)

    Yeah but they are opposite. Hey thanks for playing

    RE: #6: In my book that is child abuse.

    So the freely elected Pali government state sponsors child abuse? Thanks for admitting that. Oh and before you whine again that not every Pali voted for Hamas, they voted for Fatah then. Show me where Palis are protesting these shows. If you can, then you might have a point. If not, well you dont have a leg to stand on.

    “Much like racists in the US teaching hate to their children is child abuse.”

    Yeah, thats the same thing. Moral relativist strikes again.

    “And what god do racists in the US use to justify their racist beliefs? What god gave the white man his Burden to subjugate all non-whites in order to civilize the savages? What god gave this land, that is being ruined by the evil Jews and their black enforcers, to the white man? Was it Allah?”

    No but allah sanctions slavery.

    “This copout is becoming increasingly popular around here when people aren’t prepared to back up their BS.”

    Not a cop out when Dodger doges every point I make. Blame him not me

    “Elric is a democrat. My proof is that the country he lives in democratically elected democrats to run that country. So, obviously, Elric supports democrats, and believes in the democratic party’s ideology.”

    Still avoiding Fatah huh? You and Dodger twins?

  35. 25 “inner strugglers” busted attempting to “slip up”

    http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/026880.php#respond

    “The interior ministry said the alleged militant cell was led by a Palestinian and the other members were Egyptians.”

    Hmmm led by a Pali? I am “shocked”

    “It said that most of those arrested were engineers or technicians.”

    Doesnt sound like they were poor and uneducated.

    “They believe in takfiri and jihadi thought,” said the statement, referring to the radical ideology followed by al-Qaeda. Takfir is the doctrine of declaring people to be unbelievers who are fit to be killed and jihad means holy war….”

    I think Red Pill and Dodger need to talk to this guy Obviously he didnt get his apologist training from Multicultural U :-)

  36. Red Pill,

    Perhaps your history is a bit foggy. Abolitionists were for the most part Christian. Much of the Civil Rights were led by Christians. Martin Luther King himself was a black Baptist preacher, who called on white Christians to amplify his message and they did so. As example, Billy Graham refused to evangelize in the South until all men were granted equal rights, etc…

    To accuse Christianity of wholesale slaughter is to be ignorant of history. And it is also ignorant of history to simply blame whites in the formation of America as murderers. Those they fought weren’t called “savages” and “scalpers” because of their table manners. And I think it worth remembering that the original Indians were very tribal and often committed slaughter themselves of adversarial tribes.

    In addition, have you forgotten that many of America’s most prestigious and oldest universities, including Rutherford’s own, were founded upon Puritan traditions? As example Harvard named for John Harvard, a young minister who, upon his death in 1638, left his library and half his estate to the new institution?
    ————————————

    Suicide is not an unforgivable sin. And to think salvation simply asking for forgiveness for sins makes an admission of faith sound trite, as a thief on the cross never asked forgiveness – but he did claim the Christ. If you are to believe that, Judas could have simply excused himself by saying he was sorry. Christ himself said, “you must be born again.” That is a wholesale change in thought and behavior.

    There is only one unforgivable sin and that is the rejection of the Holy Spirit.

  37. There is only one unforgivable sin and that is the rejection of the Holy Spirit.

    WOW … now that puzzles me. I can see it being deemed a major misjudgment (which by the way has no negative consequences to ones fellow man), but an unforgivable sin?

    I fall back to Rabbit’s query. Doesn’t that make God one heckuva narcissist?

  38. Yeah, I know. It’s weird, but what Tex says at least makes sense within his theology.

    If rejection of the Holy Spirit is such a grave sin, I wished God would have at least used a better medium for his message.

    You can’t even get a straight answer from God on what heck to believe!

    Take Isaiah 55:8. That really resonated with me. So much so, I started reading about the passage.

    I couldn’t believe it! Respected religious scholars are in total disagreement over Isiah 55:8.

    I took it to mean there are some aspects of God that I can’t understand. I found it pretty damn eloquent. But nay, nay. Many Christians see 55:8 as a stern warning to get your shit together and act more like God. Almost a total opposite understanding: I saw it as a gap, they see it as a bridge.

    In fact, if I go through life not taking in the Holy Spirit and go to hell for it, I want to thank God for that one. Omnipotent and all knowing, God knew the Rabbit would be a piece of non believing poop from the get go.

    God sinned by making me!

  39. Rabbit,

    I took it to mean there are some aspects of God that I can’t understand. I found it pretty damn eloquent. But nay, nay. Many Christians see 55:8 as a stern warning to get your shit together and act more like God. Almost a total opposite understanding: I saw it as a gap, they see it as a bridge.

    Where are you reading that somebody thinks that verse a bridge to God or to act more like God? We couldn’t act like God if we wanted to – we can strive to obey his Holiness. But to be like God? Poppycock! Talk about some stupid “scholar’s” arrogance…

    I hope it isn’t some of these “scholars” you’re reading who couldn’t find their butt with both hands that are all over the internet. Stay away from those heretics – they’re not only poison, but stupid and deceived.

    You read it exactly right. The verse is telling us that there are things that we aren’t capable of understanding. The verse is very straight forward and was an answer to the Jews who felt just like us at the time when they were asking, “Why God?”

    ———————————

    Rutherford,

    Who are you to call God a narcissist? Assuming I am right for a minute and He is the Creator of the Universe, the question you ought to be asking yourself is “why the heck am I important enough in this almost infinite universe that an Almighty God would even care enough to act?” The fact that you would make such a statement is the absolute height of haughtiness.

    A rejection of the Holy Spirit is the same thing as saying the rejection of Jesus as Lord and Savior.

    No wonder I sound completely foreign to you. While I like you, sadly your intellect which most would consider your strong suit, in this case gets in your way. Another paradox about life that you have yet to learn.

    Remember this verse Rutherford. Though it may seem contrary to your line of thinking, it may very well save your soul one day. And there is nothing worth more than your soul…

    Matthew 18:3
    “Truly I say to you, unless you are converted and become like children, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven.

    I’m not dissing you friend. I actually am concerned about you, however phony that may sound. You’re worth too much to lose everything worth having. I really do wish you would devote some time. In fact, I would challenge you from an intellectual standpoint to study the Bible as a means to disprove God. Then see what happens….

  40. An American who left the United States to join an Al Qaeda-linked group in Somalia is strongly condemning President Obama’s efforts to seek “a new beginning” with the Muslim world, mocking Obama’s “magic of charisma” and warning of more attacks against U.S. interests.

    “Despite the fact that you have been … forced [by Muslim fighters] to at least pretend to extend your hand in peace to the Muslims, we cannot and shall not extend our hands,” said the man in the audiotape, identified by the Washington-based Middle East Media Research Institute (MEMRI) as Abu Mansour al-Amriki. “Rather, we shall extend to you our swords, until you leave our lands.”

    The 20-minute audiotape, called “The Beginning of the End,” was posted Thursday on several jihadist web sites as a direct response to Obama’s much-publicized speech in Cairo on June 4, when he promised “a new beginning between the United States and Muslims around the world.”

    “Let this not come as a surprise to those who are mesmerized by Obama’s speech in Cairo, our positions … have not changed in the least,”al-Amriki said, in the transcription provided by MEMRI. “If we study his words carefully, we can note very clearly that this new beginning is still heavily based upon American interests … [Obama spoke] not because he loves the Muslims he lived with in Indonesia, as a boy, but rather, it is because the only way to defeat the Muslims is by distracting them with this temporary life.”

    Al-Amriki, speaking in English throughout the audio tape, also said Obama’s speechwriters made “one major miscalculation.”

    “A Muslim doesn’t look to peace, security, education, work, or the love of any other number of things as his ultimate goals,” al-Amriki said. “Instead, a Muslim is always working and striving to please the one true Creator.”

    Al-Amriki joined al-Shabaab before the new wave of recruits from Minneapolis. A law enforcement official told FOX News earlier this year that al-Amriki, described as in his late 20s or early 30s, is originally from the United States but has been in Somalia “for some time.” It’s unclear what al-Amriki’s given name is.
    :-)

  41. CAIR continues its stealth/lega jihad

    CAIR asks pols to speak out against “Islamophobia”

    Why this is something to be concerned about and to watch closely:

    CAIR is an unindicted co-conspirator in a Hamas terror funding case. Its operatives have repeatedly refused to denounce Hamas and Hizballah as terrorist groups. Several of its former officials have been convicted of various crimes related to jihad terror. Several of its other officials have made Islamic supremacist statements. CAIR also was involved in the Flying Imams’ intimidation suit against the passengers who reported their suspicious behavior.

    CAIR has trumpeted false “hate crimes” against Muslims in the past. And in the litany of alleged “hate crimes” against Muslims that are listed in this press release, there is one exceedingly fishy detail. It’s in this article: “FBI investigating death of Muslim leader in High Desert,” by Stacia Glenn for the San Bernardino Sun, July 6:

    http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/026883.php#respond

  42. I would challenge you from an intellectual standpoint to study the Bible as a means to disprove God.

    Tex, I know this confounds you because it is easier for you to think of me as an atheist than to see that I am actually comfortable with uncertainty.

    Not only do I not need to disprove God, I can’t disprove God. I’ve never claimed that I could disprove God. You know how I said that to my mind religious people are either deluded OR arrogant. Well, I’ll go so far as to say atheists are just plain arrogant.

    I am not sure we will ever know with scientific certainty what this life is about. Why are human beings the only “animals” that have a concept of “self” and can contemplate both life and death? I’m not even sure evolution completely explains it. The huge leap from the simian brain to that of the homo-sapien. It’s truly astounding. Do I believe in evolution? Absolutely. Do I think it answers everything? Absolutely not.

    It is interesting Tex that you have a take on religion quite different from a devout protestant with whom I went to college. He asked me one day, “do you believe in love?” I said, yes. He replied, “then you believe in God”. He seemed to believe that God was within us regardless of whether we “accepted” Him or not. He was a believer that good deeds were inherently good and did not need subservience to God in order for them to be validated. Of course, when I tell you that this college roommate of mine turned out to be gay, I’m sure that will blow all his credibility out the window. But it is what it is.

    I’m not perfect. I’m proud of my good days and ashamed of my bad ones. I make an effort to have the good days outnumber the bad ones. And as arrogant as this may sound to you, if that ain’t good enough for God, then God ain’t good enough for me.

  43. Well, I’ll go so far as to say atheists are just plain arrogant.

    I want to amend that statement. Atheists have every right to not “believe” in God. The arrogance comes in when they categorically say “God does not exist”. How in the world could they ever think to know that for sure? They can say they can’t conceive of Him. They can say they don’t believe it. But they cross the line when they say they KNOW He does not exist.

    (I’m partly amending this out of respect to Red Pill, whom I don’t believe is arrogant in his non-belief.)

  44. How come so many well meaning people get it so wrong? Or maybe they are not wrong? Tex, will these people go to heaven worshiping this way? Is believing in God for the sake of some sort of worldly pleasure, in my case serenity, in their case wild hysteria, itself a road to hell?

    To take it a step farther: Isn’t accepting Christ as your savior solely for the sake of being saved almost kind of shallow? I mean, if I became a believer in order to save my ass from Satan’s fork, aren’t I being kind of self serving?

    Maybe a true Christian should not care about being saved.

    I’m just thinking out loud here.

  45. Elric: “Oh and before you whine again that not every Pali voted for Hamas, they voted for Fatah then. Show me where Palis are protesting these shows. If you can, then you might have a point. If not, well you dont have a leg to stand on.”

    What crawled up your ass tonight Elric? I hope there is room for my foot.

    Here are some protests against Hamas by Palestinians.

    Here’s more.

    Of course, I have no doubt that you will find some chickenshit reason to discount these examples, like you have done the numerous other times I have proven that you are nothing but a windbag full of overgeneralizations.

    Now show us some proof that Hamas and Fatah collectively got 100% of the Palestinian vote. Put up or shut up.

    “Blame him not me”

    I see Obama is rubbing off on you. Must be because you are such a big supporter, being as he was democratically elected, and all.

    “No but allah sanctions slavery”

    Here’s what God sanctions.

    Exodus 21

    Now these are the ordinances which you shall set before them.

    If you buy a Hebrew servant, he shall serve six years and in the seventh he shall go out free without paying anything….

    [What a nice god. Slaves who worship him only have to serve 6 years]

    If a man sells his daughter to be a female servant, she shall not go out as the male servants do. If she doesn’t please her master, who has married her to himself, then he shall let her be redeemed. He shall have no right to sell her to a foreign people, seeing he has dealt deceitfully with her….

    [Ah, women deserve to be sold around anyways, right? It's what they get for that whole apple thing.]

    I’ll thank you for playing once you actually start.

    Tex: My history isn’t hazy in the slightest. I’m well aware of the examples you’ve given.

    You seem to think that I was generalizing about Christians, racism, and US history. That was not my intention. I know the examples I gave were exceptions and not rules.

    But that doesn’t negate the truth of what I said.

    “Suicide is not an unforgivable sin.”

    Don’t Catholics think so? (Genuine question, not sarcasm)

  46. Elric: Since you are clearly concerned about relgious-based political organizations faking things, I figured you’d want to know about this this right away:

    Two people asked a Pentagon official cooperating with prosecutors in an investigation into the American Israel Public Affairs Committee to fake his own death to avoid testifying against two pro-Israel lobbyists charged in the case, according to the Justice Department.

    Pentagon analyst Lawrence Franklin pled guilty in October 2005 to participating in a conspiracy with AIPAC officials Steven Rosen and Keith Weissman to obtain and distribute classified information. The Justice Department dropped the case against Rosen and Weissman last month as a trial approached.

    Is this also “something to be concerned about and to watch closely”?

  47. Red Pill,

    You didnt show any protest protesting Hamas as a terror outfit, just some cash starved cops and some journalists. Show me where they are protesting the chidren’s show poisoning their future.

    Ohhh and show me where slavery is condoned in the NT not the old Testament. Jesus never owned slaves like islam’s “prophet”

    “I see Obama is rubbing off on you. Must be because you are such a big supporter, being as he was democratically elected, and all.”

    Still avoiding Fatah. Dodger must be rubbing off on you.

    “Is this also “something to be concerned about and to watch closely”?”

    No. But your concern about AIPAC does give me a clearer picture about you and your mindset.

  48. As The Timesstood outside what is left of No 447 Zhongwan Street, a Han neighbour approached. She had watched the killings from her home in an apartment block overlooking the store.

    “We saw hundreds of Uighurs running down the street on the afternoon of July 5. About ten suddenly rushed into the store. They began to hit the people inside, even the old mother, with bricks and stones. They tried to run outside. Then they were dragged back inside.

    “There were terrible screams. Just wordless screams. But then very quickly they fell silent.”

    She said that the son tried to hide in a chicken coop but was dragged out and his head was cut off. All the victims were left to burn inside the building. The corpses of the boy and his father were found beheaded. Mr Yu said: “Even the 84-year-old mother was stoned and then burnt. It was terrible, terrible. So cruel.”

    http://www.weaselzippers.net/blog/2009/07/han-chinese-beheaded-by-rampaging-muslim-uighur-mobs.html#comments

    All cultures are equal. Right?

  49. MOGADISHU (Reuters) – Somalia’s hardline Islamist rebels beheaded seven people on Friday for being “Christians” and “spies” in the latest imposition of strict sharia, Islamic law, by the al Qaeda-linked al Shabaab group, witnesses said.

    Al Shabaab, which controls large tracts of south Somalia and parts of the capital Mogadishu, has carried out such executions before, but the beheadings on Friday were believed to be the largest number of killings at one time, Somalis say.

    “Al Shabaab told us that they were beheaded for reasons they described as being Christian followers and spies,”said one relative, who gave his name only as Aden, after the killings in the south-central town of Baidoa.

  50. “R”,

    To take it a step farther: Isn’t accepting Christ as your savior solely for the sake of being saved almost kind of shallow? I mean, if I became a believer in order to save my ass from Satan’s fork, aren’t I being kind of self serving?

    Couldn’t I take this a step farther then and state everything we do self serving? Even our good deeds, as those done to simply please ourselves about our goodness?

    To answer your question, I believe God has incorporated into each of us (as we are made in His image) the ability to go beyond instinct. Evolution can not answer even the most basic of questions, but the one thing even if it were true it can not answer is why does man have the ability to be selfless?

    And Christ told us specifically most would not make it to heaven. Since He is the judge and authority, I take Him at His word.

    Matthew 7:13-14

    “Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.

  51. Red Pill, I hate to say it but I have to side with Elric on posting the cops protest against Hamas. They just want to get paid, they don’t give a damn about the politics or morality of the situation. As for the journalists, that’s another story … completely valid retort to Elric.

  52. Tex, I love you man, but the quote that you directed at me came from Dead Rabbit. Don’t forget you have at least TWO folks here that don’t meet your standard (or God’s standard) of proper piety.

  53. Actually Rutherford, what I should have challenged you to do as I should have been more specific is to disprove who Christ said He was.

    However, this has gone on long enough. I officially shake the dust from my sandals of you until you yourself first show the inclination. You’ve heard what you need to know and the burden now yours.

    I’m not perfect. I’m proud of my good days and ashamed of my bad ones. I make an effort to have the good days outnumber the bad ones. And as arrogant as this may sound to you, if that ain’t good enough for God, then God ain’t good enough for me.

    Believe as you must. You are granted that right, as it called free will and a requirement for true love. My advice to you, and I mean this sincerely is, “Better live it up….while you got the time.”

    Even sin has pleasure for a time. ~Ecclesiastes

  54. Also, I notice Tex that you did not address the video Dead Rabbit posted. Were you too embarrassed to address it? You tell me that is not a bunch of lunatics.

  55. Sorry Rutheford,

    I’ve gotten so used to typing “R”, that was meant for Rabbit as I typed.

    My mistake – more a typo than misunderstanding.

  56. Rabbit and “R”,

    Guess which preacher I listen to? Make sure you watch the whole thing….to answer “R”‘s question.

    To answer your question “R”, they are as much fools as your hero’s own spiritual advisor. But even your Obama says that he claims “Jesus” as his own? Many make the claim – far fewer find it.

  57. “R”,

    Don’t forget you have at least TWO folks here that don’t meet your standard (or God’s standard) of proper piety.

    No, you still don’t get it. None of us, me included, meet the standard of piety required for the kingdom of heaven.

    You still miss the basic of premise. How could I carry it any further, when you still don’t understand the most basic tenet? None are worthy, no not one?

  58. Tex, for whatever my opinion is worth, Adrian Rogers seems like a man interested in enriching the spirit and not his own pocket. So, bravo to that.

    But again you puzzle me … if none of us meet the standard to gain entrance to Heaven, how do any of us get there? Simply by accepting Christ as our savior, regardless of what kind of scumbag we might be throughout our life?

    Also, and I ask this without the slightest intention of sarcasm, why have you not entered the ministry? You seem to know your bible better than the average guy and you do seem genuinely concerned with the souls of others, or at least those you call your friends. Aren’t you exactly what the ministry needs?

  59. “Red Pill, I hate to say it but I have to side with Elric on posting the cops protest against Hamas. They just want to get paid, they don’t give a damn about the politics or morality of the situation. As for the journalists, that’s another story … completely valid retort to Elric.”

    One protest over Hamas treatment of fellow journalists isnt really valid. But glad you at least partially agreed with me.

  60. Hey Rutherford. I want to thank you and your Democrats for the piece of shit “Cash for Clunkers” bill.

    Another failed policy by nanny that effects me directly.

    I drive a little truck with no back seat (baby on the way). I’ve been in the market for 3 months. I didn’t pull the trigger because I was waiting for the C for Clunks bill. Turn in your vehicle and get a 4,500 dollar rebate from nanny.

    Now my Dad is the best frugal shopper on planet earth. Even he was duped by Obama. To our complete disgust, we realized the following:

    1. The incentives/deals/good prices have instantly disappeared since the bill’s passing.
    2. The details of C for C are total shit. Only people with V8 monsters will get the rebate unless you want to drive a death trap. A death trap that is now selling for more thanks to the C for C.
    3. Increase of sales will be offset from the total lack of sales while Congress wrangled over the bill. Every dealership my Dad went to was irate over the bill.

    What a joke, man. What a fricking joke.

  61. “R”,

    You and the Rabbit have truly been deceived – mostly IMHO out of either a lack of interest, or possibly, because you’ve never had a role model that inspired you to take a hard look.

    Whatever the reason, you should really know something. Don’t form your opinions from what you read or hear in the secular media. They are completely hostile to pure religion. Whether it be the nuts that Rabbit found (and I’m ashamed to say not terribly far from my own house), or the prosperity preachers you see and hear pandering for their own benefit, this is not representative of the Evangelical Church. Not in the least my friends.

    Never were Jerry Falwell or Pat Robertson the spiritual leaders of the community. For every Falwell, I can point to a hundred Adrian Rogers – and yet the media focuses on the nuts.

    Why? Because the secular want you to remain in your ignorance. The message of God is contrary to the secular world. Falwell and Robertson are easy to portray as buffoons – but Adrian Rogers, or David Jeremiah, or D.James Kennedy (some of the real representatives) aren’t so easily dismissed because they are educated and brilliant men with a message that resonates with the soul. They make no bold claims, nor promises of riches. They ask for little in return but what you choose to give. But their message has changed millions of lives. Not in the miraculous ways that so many of the charlatans claim. That is not the way God typically works.
    ———————————————-

    To answer your question “R” about why I didn’t enter the ministry, the answer is simple. It is not my gift, nor my calling. Though I must admit, when I left the corporation some years back, I looked at two fields where I felt I could lend greater purpose: (1) medicine, (2) ministry.

    But I believe the ministry is a higher calling, and one that I didn’t feel led to enter. I am not qualified, nor worthy.
    ———————————————-

    But again you puzzle me … if none of us meet the standard to gain entrance to Heaven, how do any of us get there? Simply by accepting Christ as our savior, regardless of what kind of scumbag we might be throughout our life?

    Accepting Christ as our Savior sounds trite or cliche, doesn’t it? I believe it is. Since I no longer feel the inclination to share much, I’ll just say this Rutherford.

    To be born again, your intent is not to remain a scumbag – to accept Christ changes your life if sincere. You no longer see the world as simply a physical realm. To accept Christ as Savior is to begin to ask yourself the questions, “why am I here” and recognize it is not to simply go through the motions and enjoy what the physical world has to offer.

    I believe the answer is to glorify our Creator. And I can’t do that by remaining a scumbag, or making false claims of benefit. In fact, at least for me, for a time my own life became more difficult – but then exercise used to be like that too.
    ———————————————-

    I’ll tell you a story I once heard that I believe exemplifies what happens when one sincerely becomes a Christian. It’s a simple story, but I believe still has meaning.

    A recent convert was sitting amongst his secular friends one day after a round of golf. They were aware that he had made a profession of faith and begin to tease him about not joining them on the Sunday morning golf outings anymore.

    One friend asked the man, “Come On! You don’t really believe in that changing the water to wine stuff, do you?” That’s a bunch of nonsense and impossible. You’re not fooling anybody and just doing this to please the wife.”

    The man, still an immature Christian not well versed in all the ways, looked at his friend and said this: “You know, I don’t know much about the Bible yet. I can’t answer about changing the water to wine, though I choose to believe Jesus did just that. But I will tell you this much. At my house, Jesus changed all that beer I was drinking to buying furniture for my family.”

    Now that is not a life changing story and I recognize that. But it is simply an example of what I have witnessed in my own life and many others.

    Now I know that a doubting Thomas like you “R” is going to say, “well, the man could have changed that by simply changing his lifestyle!” And that is true. But talk to any prison minister or priest and ask them how far a typical parole gets without accepting there is something more to answer for than just this life.

  62. “The man, still an immature Christian not well versed in all the ways, looked at his friend and said this: “You know, I don’t know much about the Bible yet. I can’t answer about changing the water to wine, though I choose to believe Jesus did just that. But I will tell you this much. At my house, Jesus changed all that beer I was drinking to buying furniture for my family.”-Tex

    That’s great and so true. I’ve literally seen Christianity do just that for several of my friends.

    I have buddy on my softball team who, up to last year, was a junkie. Yes, contrary to popular belief, many heroin addicts can actually maintain some sort of life, although barely. He even kept playing softball, although he sucked. My brother and I told him to hit the road at the end of last season.

    He sure did. hit the road and found God. I had to give him another shot upon hearing this. Dude is now awesome on the field and is even hanging out with his kids now. Will it last? God only knows.

  63. Yeah just as I suspected.

    Me: “Of course, I have no doubt that you will find some chickenshit reason to discount these examples, like you have done the numerous other times I have proven that you are nothing but a windbag full of overgeneralizations.”

    Elric: “You didnt show any protest protesting Hamas as a terror outfit, just some cash starved cops and some journalists. Show me where they are protesting the chidren’s show poisoning their future.

    Ohhh and show me where slavery is condoned in the NT not the old Testament. Jesus never owned slaves like islam’s “prophet”

    Elric, what I showed you was God speaking to Moses. That was God condoning slavery. Don’t try and pull a punk move with this New testament crap. It’s all God’s word. Ask Tex.

    Its always up to someone else to answer your questions or show you something. When are you going to support your claim that all Palestinians are either Hamas or Fatah supporters?

    “Still avoiding Fatah. Dodger must be rubbing off on you.”

    First you blame other people for what you do, now you are avoiding showing proof for your bullshit claims. Both are classic Barack Obama dodging tactics.

    You’ve been dodging so much lately, you’ll be catching Rutherford soon.

    “No. But your concern about AIPAC does give me a clearer picture about you and your mindset.”

    And your lack of concern about AIPAC lying gives me a clearer picture about you and your hypocrisy. They get proven to be liars and you don’t blink an eye. But Weaselzippers gives you some speculation on CAIR lying, and that is big news we need to be concerned about.

    What do you think my concern about AIPAC says about me? Don’t be a pussy and beat around the bush. Let’s hear your big opinion of me based on my concerns about AIPAC.

  64. Rabbit,

    He sure did. hit the road and found God. I had to give him another shot upon hearing this. Dude is now awesome on the field and is even hanging out with his kids now. Will it last? God only knows.

    It will if he avoids the temptation of reverting to a former life. God provides the means to change, but the decision to change still rests with the prospect. If he is sincere, and stays in the faith, then I believe God will grant him the power to remain free. If your friend tempts fate, he will get burned. If he’s smart, he will hang with you and your brother. A struggle together is much easier than a struggle alone and I believe a reason that God calls us a flock. God may indeed be working through you Rabbit, and you may not recognize it for quite some time.

    If you want to know how I believe God works, believe it or not, there is a Hollywood movie than I believe whether it intended or not, to convey a real message of how God works. You’ve probably seen it, but if you haven’t, rent M. Night Shyamalan’s “Signs”. Not a bad movie, with an entertaining twist, and it has a great message.

    I was never sure if M. NIght (the writer and the director) understood the depth of what he was saying, but it came about as close as to how God really works in people’s lives (minus the extra terrestrials) as what I’ve witnessed.

    Right moment, some stranger, right people just happen to show up at the most coincidental of times.

  65. “It’s all God’s word. Ask Tex.”

    Well, Tex might not be a minister, but it seems he is The Rutherford Lawson Blog official chaplain.

    That is unless Rutherford wants more of the “Gawwwwwwd Daaaaaaaamn America” rhetoric…..

    Speaking of thinly veiled racially charged comments, Rutherford might be the only black agnostic I have ever met in my life.

    Or…uh….chatted with on the internet.

  66. Elric: “One protest over Hamas treatment of fellow journalists isnt really valid. But glad you at least partially agreed with me.”

    Nothing is valid to you if it doesn’t show Muslims in a bad light.

    Hell, I showed you were God condones selling Hebrews and women into bondage, and you discount it because it’s God and not Jesus.

    Where are the protests against racists in the US destroying the minds of their children? Don’t try and use the civil rights movement, either. Let’s see some outrage specifically targetting racists teaching hate to their children.

  67. Interesting Tex, I saw Signs…liked it…but didn’t pick up on anything like that. I’ll watch it again.

  68. I guess I will have to do Elric’s work for him, since he is incapable of researching his own BS. I know it’s difficult if you can’t find it on JihadWatch or Waeselzippers.

    Palestinian Legislative makeup

    Of the Electoral Lists, Hamas received 44.45% and Fatah 41.43%[1] and of the Electoral Districts, Hamas party candidates received 41.73% and Fatah party candidates received 36.96%.[2]

    Looks like Hamas and Fatah didn’t combine for 100%. So I guess you are wrong that any Palestinian who doesn’t support Hamas simply supports Fatah.

    Here are the other political parties you are overlooking:

    Palestinian National Initiative
    Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine
    Third Way
    Democratic Front for the Liberation of Palestine
    Palestinian People’s Party
    Palestine Democratic Union
    National Coalition for Justice and Democracy

    Now go think hard about how you are going to discount some more of my proof that you are full of crap.

  69. Now go think hard about how you are going to discount some more of my proof that you are full of crap.”

    This is quite impossible.

  70. France: Muslim ringleader of gang who tortured and murdered Jew sentenced to life in prison

    Predictably, this story does not call attention to the role of Islamic anti-semitism in Fofana’s acts. The words “Islam” and “Muslim” are not mentioned despite Fofana’s own words quoted below, and the fact that the torturers chanted Qur’anic verses, and Fofana shouted “Allahu akbar!” in court. “Gang leader gets life in anti-Semitic murder case,” from France24, July 10:

    Fofana, the son of Ivorian immigrants, raised his fist as he turned up in court at the start of the trial and proclaimed “Allah will conquer!”

    http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/026894.php#respond

  71. “In a way, we already have two parallel legal systems: some things are illegal for non-Muslims but not for Muslims”

    NRC Handelsblad is running a point/counterpoint about Sharia, asking the question, “Would it be such a terrible thing if sharia courts existed in the Netherlands?” Interestingly enough, answering yes, it would be a terrible thing, is a Muslim woman, Nahed Selim, who knows what Sharia is all about, while the other side is taken up by a dhimmi with probably not the slightest idea what Sharia involves, Maurits Berger.

    “Help Muslims escape the tyranny of sharia law,” by Nahed Selim for NRC Handelsblad, July 10 (thanks to Insubria):

    http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/026893.php#respond

    But Nahed, the apologists here say multiculturalism is great and all cultures are no different than others. They know better than you. What would you know anyway. allah says you are worth half a man.

  72. I know better than you do.

    How about that research I’ve done for you? Pretty interesting, isn’t it, Elric? Would you care to comment on it? I mean, since you accused me of ignoring Fatah and dodging the issue, and all.

    Electoral Lists: Hamas=44.45%, Fatah=41.43%, other=14.12%
    Electoral Districts: Hamas=41.73%, Fatah=36.96%, other=21.31%

  73. On the bright side, we shouldn’t have to hear Elric carry on about Rutherford dodging issues anymore.

    Nor should we have to hear him continue his generalizations of Palestinians.

  74. Which Palestinians, Elric? The ones who support Hamas, or the ones that support Fatah? It has to be 1 of those 2, because there are no others, right?

    “ALA, panelists cave to pressure from terror-linked group, panel with Spencer canceled”

    Aww. Now he can’t sit on their panel and omit contextual lines from the Koran as he is quoting from it. Such a shame.

  75. “This is almost as bad as opposing gay marriage in Cali.”

    Taking a relativist stance on this one, eh Dodger?

  76. Looks like Rutherford’s blog has gone from a discussion area to Elric’s personal xenophobic link repository.

  77. Enduring Nonsense By: Daniel Mandel
    FrontPageMagazine.com | Friday, July 10, 2009

    The other week, responding to Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s speech that envisaged creating a demilitarized Palestinian state, perennial Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak noted, “I told President Obama that solving the crises of the Arab and Muslim worlds goes through Jerusalem.” The week before, General David Petraeus, head of the U.S. military’s Central Command, said, “Hezbollah’s justifications for existence will become void…if the Palestinian cause is resolved.”

    http://www.frontpagemag.com/readArticle.aspx?ARTID=35528

  78. “The other week, responding to Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s speech that envisaged creating a demilitarized Palestinian state….”

    A vision that gave all of Jerusalem to Israel. A vision that he knows will never be accepted.

    But then, that is why they keep envisioning it, isn’t it?

    “I told President Obama that solving the crises of the Arab and Muslim worlds goes through Jerusalem.”

    Both sides want the whole city, and the issue will never be resolved as long as Jerusalem is a part of the equasion.

    “General David Petraeus, head of the U.S. military’s Central Command, said, “Hezbollah’s justifications for existence will become void…if the Palestinian cause is resolved”

    He’s right.

    But then, I guess you would know better than Gen. David Petraeus, wouldn’t you?

  79. Looks like poor wittle Elric got his poor wittle feelings hurt when I called him a pussy for not having the balls to come out and say what my thoughts on AIPAC tell him about me. (which I took to be a personal insult alluding to me being anti-Semitic. So if you don’t like ‘em, don’t give ‘em)

  80. Copts in Egypt: “Security has declared war on the Church”

    “Currently Coptic affairs are, largely, the responsibility of the “Coptic division” of the State Security Intelligence.”

    All the better to enforce the demand of Qur’an 9:29 that unbelievers “feel themselves subdued.” That is an open-ended command, as is evident in this story and elsewhere: Whether the local non-Muslims are subdued “enough” depends on the whims (and paranoia) of the Muslim leadership at a given time and place.

    “The Role of the Egyptian Security in Violence Against Christian Copts,” by Mary Abdelmassih for the Assyrian International News Agency, July 8

    http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/026885.php#respond

    I guess they didnt give a crap about Thuggy’s speech.

  81. “Watch for the outraged condemnations and demonstrations by Muslim groups worldwide.”

    I assume you will show us the condemnations by any group over this specific act as soon as your xenophobic pal Robert Spencer gives you something to copy and paste.

  82. Look Elric, here is an entire web page dedicated to the response of numerous Islamic scholars and organizations (including CAIR) to the events of 9/11. And just in case you can’t find any links to that page on JihadWatch, I will link it for you.

    You might also note the many acts of violence committed against American Muslims that are listed. Mosques being firebombed, Muslims being murdered, and even Muslim school children being attacked. (I know you’ll be outraged over all this, seeing as you have shown so much concern for the safety of school children and churches.)

    Did you show any outrage for those acts of violence, Elric?

  83. Red Pill,

    Despite the magnitude and the fact that it all happened live on television, the lack of violence perpetrated against Muslims in America after 9/11 is one of the unspoken, unreported social miracles of our time.

    One that I am very proud of.

    Can you imagine the “troubles” if an attack on the level of 9/11 took place anywhere else in the world?

    At the time of the attacks, I was living in Dearborn, the “epicenter” of all Arabs outside the Middle East itself. The Detroit metro area is statically the most segregated, racially charged and violent metro area in the U.S. Yet a hostile backlash didn’t go down. And while there have been isolated cases, some of them atrocious, to compare anti-Islamic oppression in the U.S. to the global aggression committed in the name of Islam is just grossly out of perspective. To claim Muslims have been oppressed in the U.S. after 9/11 is just not reasonable. Again, there have been cases. But line it up to the reality of 9/11, disturbingly watched first hand by all of America, and what you’re trying to claim is frail.

    I understand why you are pointing this out. It seems that, if possible, Elric would push a button and kill every Muslim in the world, if such a device existed. One has to wonder if Elric is aware of the millions upon millions of good people that are Muslims.
    Some of them my friends.

    That being said, I believe you to be turning a blind eye to a couple obvious facts. Facts that cause the virus that is Elric to never tire.

    1. Islam is going through a period of history in which it has become dangerous. Way too many are buying into jihadism. Moderates have been far too silent in countering this sick, expanding, strain of Islam.

    2. The sad truth is, Elric’s correct that certain aspects of Islam itself lead it down a violent path more so then other religions. It doesn’t “taste” nice. Rather bitter, actually. But the fact is, theologically, Islam is more prone to be both violent and oppressive then any other mainstream religion. To pretend that this isn’t the case is to pretend there were not riots over a cartoon. Or, on the flip side, to pretend there WERE riots over the latest Tom Hanks movie, Angels and Demons.

    Elric, would you push that button?

  84. “To claim Muslims have been oppressed in the U.S. after 9/11 is just not reasonable. Again, there have been cases. But line it up to the reality of 9/11, disturbingly watched first hand by all of America, and what you’re trying to claim is frail. ”

    I’ve made no such claim.

    As you mentioned, there have been cases, and all I did was point some of them out. I wanted to watch Elric ignore those cases, while he shows his selective outrage.

    The last thing I was intending to do is try and say that America has treated Muslims the same way that many Muslims have been treating others around the world.

    “That being said, I believe you to be turning a blind eye to a couple obvious facts.”

    I don’t turn a blind eye to those facts, I just choose not to dwell on them. Mainly because there is nothing I can do to change them. I’m not a Muslim, so I don’t attempt to effect change in their thinking. My goal is to enlighten the Elrics of the world to the point you made about millions and millions of people, no matter how futile that effort probably is.

    But that I don’t bring up Islam’s many negative qualities in the process does not mean I am not aware of their existence.

  85. Part of what drives Elric insane is the refusal to admit by academia, politicians and the left that there is something wrong with the very core of Islam that makes it more dangerous then any other pillar of mainstream global culture.

    Obviously, not every Muslim is swayed by this ingrained danger. But damn, trying to show it to be somehow nullified by other examples of human depravity is not the way to counter Elric.

    Even if you disagree with me, which I don’t think you do, one would have to admit that it’s a worthy hypothesis in the wake of the last decade. Try bringing this up in a college class and you will be in very hot water, if not expelled: Hence, Elric’s obsession and fanaticism.

    There is a danger just as strong as Elric’s fanaticism in the refusal to admit that Islamic culture has a built in dangerous and oppressive nature. Europe is finding this out the hard way right now. If we could just admit this to Elric, maybe he would go out for an ice cream or something.

    If only Islam wasn’t a religion. If it was a merely secular political movement, it would be somewhat easier to state the obvious on a University of Michigan campus.

    The problem I have with Elric is the same I think you have. What, ultimately, does Elric want? Wholesale destruction of Islam? Destroy Mecca? Outlaw the religion?

    The weazelzipper website displays a decal that I think is supposed to be a tipping of the hat to the crusades. That kind of crap is not the direction civilized people should want to go in.

    Elric fails to understand that the whipping up unrestrained hate spreads like the poison ivy currently on Rabbit’s arm. It’s just not ethical or feasible and it can burn us all.

  86. DR: “But damn, trying to show it to be somehow nullified by other examples of human depravity is not the way to counter Elric. ”

    See, here’s the thing. I am not trying to nullify anything by pointing out other examples. I am just trying to get him, and whomever else, to realize that Muslims are not the only people on this planet who have shown the capacity for terrible acts against others. Perhaps I am going about it the wrong way, but my nature is to compare things.

    “Try bringing this up in a college class and you will be in very hot water, if not expelled: Hence, Elric’s obsession and fanaticism.”

    Well, I can only speak from my personal experience, but I have found this to be mixed. My History professors who teach Islamic and ME History are fine talking about this stuff objectively. They are also non-religious. 1 prof. I had was an Imam who taught an intro course on the Islamic world, and he did not teach or discuss these topics objectively.

    That doesn’t mean I am unaware of what goes on at college campuses, and maybe mine is the exception. I go to a pretty laid back SoCal university, and its Islamic and ME Studies program is very well established and has been around for decades. In my opinion, they do pretty well overall in presenting facts and letting the students decide what to do with them.

    “If only Islam wasn’t a religion. If it was a merely secular political movement, it would be somewhat easier to state the obvious on a University of Michigan campus.”

    It would also help if there were more Muslims willing to intrepret their faith in a more mainstream light. What worked 1400 years ago in the deserts of Arabia just don’t cut it in today’s world. Unfortunately, there are far too few Muslims who recognize that.

  87. DR and Red Pill, great discussion here.

    I especially love the remark about how things might be different if Islam was simply a political movement and not a religion. We, as Americans, have been taught to be tolerant of ofher religions. It is the cornerstone of this country’s beginning. So, yes, condemnation of Islam, the religion, seems contrary to everything Americans stand for and makes Elric look like a bigot.

    Elric is making one inroad in my thinking but I need to do more research to find a comfortable conclusion. I am currently wrestling with this notion of Sharia law. By referring to “law” this seems to inappropriately cross the boundary from religion into government. All religions have their “rules” but i don’t know of any that define them as laws, with enforceable punishments. This aspect of Islam does trouble me greatly.

    I do wish that Elric would step up to the level of discussion exemplified by Red Pill and Rabbit here. As I’ve said before, posting links ad nauseum is not the same as debating.

    By the way, I would like to see Elric’s answer to Rabbit’s question because Rabbit has presented the ultimate question. Elric, if one button could kill every Muslim on the planet, would you press it?

  88. Rutherford, good for you to research and decide for yourself.

    This is where things get complicated, because Islam does tend to mix its religion and politics. It has from the very beginning. Mohammad was statesman and prophet. And a lot of Muslims like it that way. Others feel exactly opposite.

    I’ll tell you some things I know about Sharia tomorrow over a pot of coffee. Of course, I’m no expert, and there will certainly be different opinions out there. So you can take what I say for whatever you think it’s worth.

  89. Sharia law and amputations in Nigeria: “This is what God said”

    “Sharia law is my ambition and that is the ambition of every Muslim in this country.”

    “As for the thief, both male and female, cut off their hands. It is the reward of their own deeds, an exemplary punishment from Allah. Allah is Mighty, Wise.” — Qur’an 5:38

    “In an appropriate case, he didn’t see any reason why sharia law would not be applied to govern a case in the United States.” — State Department Legal Adviser Harold Koh

    http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/026901.php#respond

  90. CAIR forces the American Library Association to submit to sharia law
    July 11, 2009 by creeping

    The exact threat we warn about daily is now playing out daily in the United States. Non-muslims unable to speak freely on the streets of Dearborn, Michigan. Non-muslims assaulted on the streets of Minnesota. Those who investigate Islamic terrorism detained and ejected from a major Islamic conference in D.C. Now, groups that are linked to Islamic terrorists and refuse to condemn Islamic terrorist groups like Hamas and Hizbollah are coming after Americans who speak out against Islamic terrorism and sharia law. (posts and videos on these previous Creeping Sharia stories on homepage or Search)

    When we, Americans, can no longer expose the threat of Islamic sharia law, violent and stealth jihad – we will have surrendered not only our freedom of speech but our future. Do not let this happen for future generations of Americans.

    http://creepingsharia.wordpress.com/2009/07/11/cair-forces-the-american-library-association-to-submit-to-sharia-law/

  91. Again Riots of Muslim Youth in France.

    Again they set cars on fire. And again, they attack policemen and firemen.

    By E.J. Bron

    Because the 21-year-old delinquent Mohammed Benmouna hanged himself in his prison cell [last Monday, after hanging himself, he went into a coma, and died Wednesday in Saint-Étienne Hospital. He was under arrest for attempted extortion and in custody at the police office of Chambon-Feugerolles (Loire)], last night riots by Muslim youth returned for yet another night. During the third night in succession, it came to heavy riots in a suburb of the French city of Saint-Étienne, where these fellow citizens also set a shopping mall on fire in Firminy and many other small shops [see article below].

    http://gatesofvienna.blogspot.com/2009/07/those-riotous-french-youths.html#readfurther

    The French Car-b-ques are back

  92. I would push a button….

    If it would convert all Muslims to Christians. Consider it the Ann Coulter magic bullet, because I know Rutherford loves Ann Coulter.
    :smile:

  93. Hey Tex…would that button also convert non-believers? That would be cool because then Elric and the Rabbit could become Christians.

  94. Rutherford: As I was eagerly researching and writing up the very brief and general history and explanation of Shari’a I promised you, I recieved an E-Mail from 1 of my favorite professors asking me to help put together a presentation for our school’s Model UN recruiting drive. (I’m not a big fan of the UN, but our team kicks ass at diplomacy, and the college kids that participate are a surprisingly wild and fun bunch for an old man like me).

    So my promise to give you some info on Shari’a will have to split time with that. But I was enjoying the research and writing, so I will certainly be posting that comment sooner rather than later.

  95. Fatah official: Our goal has never been peace

    But of course the learned analysts, from Obama on down, will never be convinced of this. “Fatah official: ‘Our goal has never been peace. Peace is a means; the goal is Palestine,'” by Itamar Marcus and Nan Jacques Zilberdik for Palestinian Media Watch, July 12 (thanks to Rachel):

    http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/026904.php#respond

    Like I said, no different than Hamas

  96. Newsweek wants you to relax and forget about the jihad against Europe

    Go back to sleep, won’t you? “Why Fears Of A Muslim Takeover Are All Wrong: Analyzing the forecasts of an emerging ‘Eurabia,’ hostile to America and western values,” by William Underhill for Newsweek, from the July 20 issue (thanks to James):

    To listen to Europe’s far right, it would be easy to conclude that the continent is poised for another round of bitter conflict with a centuries-old adversary.

    “Far right” — thus Newsweek signals to its enlightened, forward looking readers that they are not to think this way. This is no new “bitter conflict with a centuries-old adversary.” Only the “far right” thinks there is. And we are not those benighted, neofascist souls, now, are we?

    “The first Islamic invasion of Europe was stopped at [the battle of] Poitiers in 732. The second was halted at the gates of Vienna in 1683. Now we have to stop the current stealth invasion,” argues Geert Wilders, the leader of the Dutch Party for Freedom, which claims that Islamic doctrine encourages terrorism.

    Yes, Wilders “claims” that. Of course all enlightened Newsweek readers know that that isn’t true. Wilders made it all up. Never mind, for example, that in March 2009, five Muslims accused of helping plot the September 11 attacks, including the notorious Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, wrote an “Islamic Response to the Government’s Nine Accusations.” In it they quote the Qur’an to justify their jihad war against the American Infidels. “In God’s book,” asserts the letter, “he ordered us to fight you everywhere we find you, even if you were inside the holiest of all holy cities, The Mosque in Mecca, and the holy city of Mecca, and even during sacred months. In God’s book, verse 9 [actually verse 5], Al-Tawbah [the Qur'an’s 9th chapter]: Then fight and slay the pagans wherever you find them, and seize them, and besiege them and lie in wait for them in each and every ambush.”

    Never mind also that Osama bin Laden’s communiqués have also quoted the Qur’an copiously. In his 1996 “Declaration of War against the Americans Occupying the Land of the Two Holy Places,” he quotes seven Qur’an verses: 3:145; 47:4-6; 2:154; 9:14; 47:19; 8:72; and the notorious “Verse of the Sword,” 9:5. Bin Laden began his October 6, 2002, letter to the American people with two Qur’an quotations, both of a martial bent — 22:39 and 4:76.

    http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/026902.php#respond

    Apologists want that too, not just Newsweak.

  97. d. Sharia Law

    Unlike many religions, Islam includes a mandatory and highly specific legal and political plan for society called Sharia (pronounced “sha-r�e-uh”), which translates approximately as “way” or “path.” The precepts of Sharia are derived from the commandments of the Quran and the Sunnah (the teachings and precedents of Muhammad as found in the reliable hadiths and the Sira). Together, the Quran and the Sunnah establish the dictates of Sharia, which is the blueprint for the good Islamic society. Because Sharia originates with the Quran and the Sunnah, it is not optional. Sharia is the legal code ordained by Allah for all mankind. To violate Sharia or not to accept its authority is to commit rebellion against Allah, which Allah’s faithful are required to combat.

    There is no separation between the religious and the political in Islam; rather Islam and Sharia constitute a comprehensive means of ordering society at every level. While it is in theory possible for an Islamic society to have different outward forms — an elective system of government, a hereditary monarchy, etc. — whatever the outward structure of the government, Sharia is the prescribed content. It is this fact that puts Sharia into conflict with forms of government based on anything other than the Quran and the Sunnah.

    The precepts of Sharia may be divided into two parts:

    1. Acts of worship (al-ibadat), which includes:

    Ritual Purification (Wudu)
    Prayers (Salah)
    Fasts (Sawm and Ramadan)
    Charity (Zakat)
    Pilgrimage to Mecca (Hajj)

    2. Human interaction (al-muamalat), which includes:

    Financial transactions
    Endowments
    Laws of inheritance
    Marriage, divorce, and child care
    Food and drink (including ritual slaughtering and hunting)
    Penal punishments
    War and peace
    Judicial matters (including witnesses and forms of evidence)

    As one may see, there are few aspects of life that Sharia does not specifically govern. Everything from washing one’s hands to child-rearing to taxation to military policy fall under its dictates. Because Sharia is derivate of the Quran and the Sunnah, it affords some room for interpretation. But upon examination of the Islamic sources (see above), it is apparent that any meaningful application of Sharia is going to look very different from anything resembling a free or open society in the Western sense. The stoning of adulterers, execution of apostates and blasphemers, repression of other religions, and a mandatory hostility toward non-Islamic nations punctuated by regular warfare will be the norm. It seems fair then to classify Islam and its Sharia code as a form of totalitarianism.

  98. It sure would be nice to know where this information was copied and pasted from.

    You know, I can understand being pissed off and ignoring me, Elric. But if you are also going to ignore everyone else here, then it really becomes a question—why are you even here? All you are doing is spamming links to xenophobic garbage and copy&pasting material from those links.

    You aren’t even joining in discussion anymore. It’s beyond ridiculous at this point.

  99. “Like I said, no different than Hamas”

    But different than the 20% of Palestinians who voted for neither.

    Like I said, and like you have dodged for the last 2 days.

    And I think there is a pending question awaiting your attention, Elric.

  100. I must echo the sentiments of Red Pill. I am disappointed with Elric’s refusal to engage. There are some thoughtful ideas posited by Red Pill and Rabbit which Elric is basically ignoring including the very pointed question:

    Would you press the button?

    Perhaps Elric has reached the point where he cannot admit that he is only able to point out problems but hasn’t the foggiest idea of a good solution.

  101. Much of this info is coming from my own personal notes over 2 years of study, “A History of Islamic Societies” by Ira M. Lapidus and “A History of the Modern Middle East” by William L. Cleveland, and various web sites (My comment includes a link to a post I did on my own blog. I hope Rutherford doesn’t mind). As I have said before, different people interpret things differently, and the same goes for my interpretations of what I have heard and read, as well as the interpretations of those I am hearing and reading. There will most certainly be differing opinions and interpretations, and I would encourage all interested to research for themselves to form their own opinions.

    The first thing we have to realize is that Islam was just as much a socio-political movement as it was a religious movement. For centuries before the creation of Islam, the Arabian Peninsula, and its surrounding areas, were ruled by clans, tribes, chiefdoms, and kingdoms, and that is where loyalties lie. These clans, tribes, chiefdoms, and kingdoms made their livings by raiding each other for booty. This led to violent conflicts that eventually turned into Arab versions of the Hatfields vs McCoys. This was not good for business if one made his living by leading camel trains, as Muhammad did for his older wife’s trade company (Lapidus).

    At that time Mecca was the major center of trade in the region. Traders of various religions came from all over to trade in the city, and to visit the religious idols they stored in the center of the city. (Yes, the Ka’ba predates Islam). Muhammad needed a way to unite all of these entities, and Islam became that way. Islam brought a version of law, order, and unity to the area. (Perhaps not the best version, but I’m not here to judge) And from there, it spread through conquest (Lapidus).

    So now we have an idea as to why Islam mixes its religion and politics. But how does it do so? It does so through the concept of Shari’a. The word Shari’a translates into “the way.” It is derived by Islamic scholars who interpret the sources of the Islamic faith (the Koran, Hadith [sayings and deeds of the Prophet as recalled by his Companions], and Sunna [the ways and customs of Muhammad and his Companions]. Also, his Companions were like his disciples. Basically, they were the people who hung with Muhammad). This is where things get confusing, because as with anything being interpreted, people are going have different interpretations which lead them to different conclusions. This act of interpreting the sources of the faith for the purpose of jurisprudence is known as Ijtihad (Notes).

    Ijtihad began soon after Muhammad’s death in 632. Over the course of centuries, there developed countless different interpretations of the same material, and made into laws in various places. By 1300, those countless interpretations were whittled down to 4 main schools of Islamic law. Each school was predominate in its own particular area of the Empire, due, in no small part, to different cultural norms that effected the way the original material was interpreted. It was then that “The Gates of Ijtihad” were essentially closed to Sunni Muslims. Although there are still Sunni scholars who practice ijtihad. Some of them doing so in a very modern way. In fact, since the 19th-century there have been Islamic scholars who have argued that to not continue to interpret the faith and bring it in line with modern thought is un-Islamic. (Lapidus, Cleveland, and Notes)

    Shi’ites address ijtihad in a different way. For Shi’ites, “The gates of Ijtihad” never close. The sources of the faith are always open to interpretation, which in turn means that Shari’a to a Shi’ite is always subject to change (Which isn’t to say it always does change, but that change is always possible). As with Sunni Muslims, different Shi’ites interpret things differently. While some believe that Islam should not be as involved in politics as it is, others believe that Islam should be directly involved in politics. (Notes)

    So what is the point of all this? Well, the points are the same points I always bring up. First, local culture and history is important to shaping the hows and whys of all this, and in understanding it. Second, and always the most important, we cannot generalize about shari’a any more than we can generalize about any other aspect of Islam. To worry about shari’a as if it is some single wave of Islamic consciousness is to ignore that there are different formally recognized schools of thought, as well as schools that are constantly changing interpretations. Shari’a to 1 Muslim is Bid’a (heresy) to another.

    (Now you can see why this is all so fascinating!)

  102. “Perhaps Elric has reached the point where he cannot admit that he is only able to point out problems but hasn’t the foggiest idea of a good solution.”

    Oh Dodger, Im not going to engage with someone that called me a virus. He apologized once and I accepted. Obviously he didnt mean it.

    But hey, muslims burned down a Copt church. Guess they didnt get thuggy’s message.

    http://www.aina.org/news/20090712144135.htm

  103. Isnt sharia law great?

    A group of Sudanese women has been flogged as a punishment for dressing “indecently”, according to a local journalist who was arrested with them.

    Lubna Ahmed al-Hussein, who says she is facing 40 lashes, said she and 12 other women wearing trousers were arrested in a restaurant in the capital, Khartoum.

    She told the BBC several of the women had pleaded guilty to the charges and had 10 lashes immediately.

    Khartoum, unlike South Sudan, is governed by Sharia law.

    Several of those punished were from the mainly Christian and animist south, Ms Hussein said.

    Non-Muslims are not supposed to be subject to Islamic law, even in Khartoum and other parts of the mainly Muslim north.

    She said that a group of about 20 or 30 police officers entered the popular Khartoum restaurant and arrested all the women wearing trousers.

    Ms Hussein said some women pleaded guilty to “get it over with” but others, including herself, chose to speak to their lawyers and are awaiting their fates.

    Under Sharia law in Khartoum, the normal punishment for “indecent” dressing is 40 lashes.

    http://www.weaselzippers.net/blog/2009/07/sudan-sharia-court-lashes-women-for-wearing-trousers.html

  104. This makes sense, except it assumes the Bible isn’t true. The on;y enemies of Israel completely destroyed are destroyed while Israel conquers the promised land. The reason these people were completely destroyed was so that the Israelites would not fall into the same beliefs (such as sacrificing children). In several instances, God was disobeyed and other peopoles were allowed to live with the Israelites. The Israelites in those areas fell away from God’s laws quickly. The Israelites fell away from God many times and each time were punished by God (invasion, famine, drought). The only reason the Israelites were spared is because of a promise God made to Abraham.

    Yet sometimes the Israelites were happy to live in peace with neighbors who worshipped alien gods. In the Book of Judges, an Israelite military leader proposes a live-and-let-live arrangement with the Ammonites: “Should you not possess what your god Chemosh gives you to possess? And should we not be the ones to possess everything that our god Yahweh has conquered for our benefit?”

    After conquering Canaan, Israel was involved in many wars. Not because they invaded other nations, but because other nations invaded them. Peace is a blessing, something to be desired, but sometimes peace can only be achieved by defeating an enemy completely (Japtheth, the Isrealite from that quote, utterly destroyed the Ammonite army).

    The BIble clearly states that their is only one God in many places, from the Ten Commandments to Jesus’s teaching.

    And, predictably, books of the Bible typically dated as postexilic, such as Ruth and Jonah, strike a warm tone toward peoples — Moabites and Assyrians — that in pre-exilic times had been vilified.

    They weren’t at war at that time, and probably hadn’t been sworn enemies for a very long time.

    Many of the prophecies from Isaiah relate to Jesus and the endtimes (I’m not sure which one he is referring to).

    Robert Wright’s theory makes sense if you don’t beliee in God. Unfortunately for athiests, it doesn’t show where the world came from.

  105. Going all the way up to question 55:

    Red,
    The American form of slavery and the form of slavery depicted in the Bible are very different. The Israelite form acknowledges that those in servitude are human beings, and have many more rights than African slaves did. Also, after six years, Israelite slaves were free people, with all the rights of anyone else. Being a slave in Israel (actually, the verse you found calls them servants) was pretty similair to being an employee or a medieval age servant.

  106. Red Pill,

    Well written. Well meaning. Certainly well informed. What does you’re essay amount to? Nothing.

    Are you trying to say that we can’t make generalizations about the current interpretation of Sharia law? If not, what’s your point other then showing us how informed you are about Islamic history?

    Ira Lapidus sits on my book shelf too. Dead Rabbit can’t figure out how waxing on about, say, what’s on page 449 (Sufism on the Indian subcontinent) means jack shit to countering the current fad of blowing yourself up and establishing a barbaric, medieval code of law.

    I’ll tell you what, I leave the historic nuances and cultural diversity part to to you and your grad school buddies.

    In the meantime, I’ll be discussing the Sharia law everyone else is dealing with. The one that sucks!

  107. Hmmmm I bet CAIR wont protest this in thuggy’s home town.

    Jihadist group to meet in Chicago — will CAIR-Chicago complain?

    The Chicago chapter of the Hamas-linked group the Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR) succeeded in intimidating the American Library Association into canceling a panel on which I was scheduled to appear this past weekend.

    CAIR, of course, would have you believe that they, and all American Muslims, abhor terrorism, reject Islamic supremacism, and fully accept Constitutional pluralism and the non-establishment of religion.

    Very well. I expect, then, that they will protest against this event strenuously. Well, Mr. Rehab? Well, Mr. Hooper?

    Or do jihadists not bother you — only those who are standing against the jihadists get under your skin?

    “Pro-Terror Group to Meet in Chicago Suburb,” from IPT News, July 10 (thanks to Paul):

    http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/026918.php#respond

    I bet the multicultural, moral relativist, apologists wont either.

  108. A SICK hate preacher has boasted that he grooms kids as young as EIGHT to become extremists.

    British-born Abu Waleed gloated in a web broadcast that he is “radicalising children” and teaching them Sharia law.

    The vile rant was filmed at the London School of Sharia, which hosts lectures from hate preachers including Omar Bakri and Anjem Choudary.

    In his latest anti-Western rant, Waleed, who claims one in eight Muslims would like to have a terrorist relative, said: “I was with some kids – I was not baby-sitting them but I was in the mosque radicalising them – one eight-year-old and one 10-year-old.”

    Waleed also slammed Brit boxing hero Amir Khan, 21.

    http://www.weaselzippers.net/blog/2009/07/uk-islamic-cleric-abu-waleed-brags-hes-grooming-eightyearold-to-be-jihadists.html#comments

    Isnt multiculturalism great!!!

  109. A Close Look at Obama’s New Islamic Partners

    By Patrick Poole @ Pajamas Media

    Following up on Jennifer Rubin’s exclusive Pajamas Media [1] article — concerning the efforts of the Department of Justice (DOJ) Civil Rights Division to recruit employees to man their booth at the Islamic Society of North America (ISNA) [2] annual conference in Washington, D.C. — it bears examining exactly who the Obama administration and the DOJ are partnering up with. The Investigative Project on Terrorism [3] notes that ISNA appears to be the new lead partner for the administration’s Islamic outreach after a top FBI official met with an ISNA vice president last week.

    In response to Rubin’s report, Thomas Jocelyn of the Weekly Standard [4] observed that ISNA’s name has come up in a current German terror finance investigation. It is believed that the Islamic group had donated $100,000 to the Third World Relief Agency at the very same time that TWRA was funding the terror network behind the 1993 World Trade Center bombing.

    According to Steve Emerson in his New York Times bestselling book, Jihad Incorporated, ISNA was also responsible for providing $170,000 in start-up cash for the Islamic African Relief Agency. The U.S. Treasury Department [5] designated them a global terror finance entity in 2004 for providing direct support to Osama bin Laden, al-Qaeda, and Hamas.

    http://creepingsharia.wordpress.com/2009/07/13/a-close-look-at-obama%E2%80%99s-new-islamic-partners/

    Thought I would pull an Elric and bring this up. :-)

  110. DR: “Are you trying to say that we can’t make generalizations about the current interpretation of Sharia law? If not, what’s your point other then showing us how informed you are about Islamic history?”

    Well, I wasn’t really trying to say much of anything. As I said, I was giving what facts I knew so that Rutherford could judge for himself. I happen to be a History major, so that is the perspecive I have. If you want posts that try and lead your thoughts, I’m sure Elric can help you out with that.

    Rutherford said he was interested in Sharia and why Islam mixed religion and politics. I addressed that.

    The facts are that there is no single current interpretation of Sharia law. Sharia laws vary, which makes it difficult to generalize about them if one whishes to remain honestly objective. Feel free to take that as you will.

    “Ira Lapidus sits on my book shelf too. Dead Rabbit can’t figure out how waxing on about, say, what’s on page 449 (Sufism on the Indian subcontinent) means jack shit to countering the current fad of blowing yourself up and establishing a barbaric, medieval code of law. ”

    I asked Elric where he got his information from. I thought it only fair to tell where I was getting mine from.

    And I don’t really think that mentioning the title of the books and an end paragraph reference is “waxing on” about them. It’s not like I was giving a critical book review of those works.

    I’m not Rutherford or Elric. Exaggerated rhetoric will be called out. So save it for them, OK?

    “I’ll tell you what, I leave the historic nuances and cultural diversity part to to you and your grad school buddies.”

    You do that. This is America, and ignorance is a freedom everyone has.

    “In the meantime, I’ll be discussing the Sharia law everyone else is dealing with. The one that sucks!”

    Which shows how little you actually comprehended what I wrote. I thought it was pretty clear.

    There is no “one” Sharia. There are several. They vary and are subject to change. Maybe you can discuss that with whomever it is you discuss this with. Coffee shop pals, or friends in the supermarket line, or wherever it is you get educated.

  111. NY Muslims Openly Call for Attacks on non-Muslims~Video

    In the past I have posted videos from NY based RevolutionMuslim.com. In the last one Muslim convert Yousef al-Khattab preached for Muslims to understand the terms of engagement in jihad. Now he has stepped up his up rhetoric and stated that Muslims need to use “your limbs, your bodies, their weapons, to promote the religion of Allah” and then finally a straight out call to “attack” the kafir. This man is obviously dangerous and needs to be locked up.

    http://islaminaction08.blogspot.com/2009/06/ny-muslims-openly-call-for-attacks-on.html

    Gotta love multiculturalism

  112. Red Pill,

    My writing often bears too much of a sarcastic tone and for this I apologize.

    That being said, I still feel you to be needlessly splitting hairs and blowing hot air.

    Why?

    I defy you to find one “version” of Shari’a law that even remotely falls within your standards of basic human rights, of our natural born rights.

    (Forget that the very principle of a theocracy should raise the hairs on your neck)

    Let’s take it a step farther. Let’s look at Shari’a law that HAS been instituted. We are now out of the realm of Islamic scholars’ or for that matter Red Pill’s interpretations. Instead, we enter the real world.

    So, Red Pill, can you make any generalizations on the kind of Shari’a law that most often seems to be instituted?

    Dead Rabbit can. And I argue an honest Red Pill can too.

    Now, I suppose a point you can make is “should” we. If people want to live under Shari’a law, does the Rabbit have a right to rip on it. I guess that would be a different conversation.

    You’re pretending you were just giving a factual, historical narrative. Yet, your conclusion is a sort of verdict: That “worrying” about Shari’a law is pointless due to the diversity and changing complexity of Islam. That it’s not something we can fairly ever judge. At least not the layman.

    I call b.s.

    Shari’a law is something tangible, concrete and a threat to the modern world.

    It is not so complicated that only Professor Pill can understand the nuances of it or even take some sort of odd ownership of it.

    Nope, Shari’a law sucks.

  113. “Rutherford said he was interested in Sharia and why Islam mixed religion and politics. I addressed that.”

    By the way, Rutherford never wondered (out loud) why Islam mixed religion and politics. He is concerned THAT Islam is a religion mixed with politics. That is a generalization, and a valid one.

    That being said, I’m sure he appreciates your effort, as I actually do. I’m just calling you out about what you implied at the end of your essay. i feel it to be the classic, naive “over-think” found in academia and thus dangerous.

  114. Rutherford used words I took to be wondering. “wrestling with,” “seems to be,” and “I don’t know of any” are buzzwords for me to pass on what I know about something. Inside there is a teacher waiting to get out. Plus, I’m in summer break, bored off my ass, and jonesing for a reason to research and write.

    “It is not so complicated that only Professor Pill can understand the nuances of it or even take some sort of odd ownership of it. ”

    If that came across in what I wrote, it was in no way by intention. I know I come off as high-and-mighty when people are being asshats. That is by intention. But we weren’t there, and I wasn’t trying to take us there.

    “Shari’a law is something tangible, concrete and a threat to the modern world.”

    I just don’t agree with this.

    It isn’t tangible as a whole, because there are different variations. Do they all suck? Yeah, maybe they do. But I’d have to know them all to say that with certainty. I don’t. Government and Politics of the Middle East begins in the Fall. Perhaps I will learn something there I can offer to satisfy your challenge. Right now I can’t, and am not interested in intensive research to find it if it is out there. But I’m not prepared to say it isn’t.

    I would also mention that all we have to judge is what has been imposed. And the folks imposing it are some pretty nasty fellows. But that doesn’t mean those are the only versions that exist, even if just on paper. To me, being as this is all based on interpretation, it speaks more to the people imposing their interpretation than it speaks to any generalization of all interpretations. But as we all know, I am one of those icky relativists.

    It isn’t concrete because variations of it are always subject to change. I think the constant potential for change goes against the idea of being concrete.

    And frankly, as an American, I find the threat of Christian laws being imposed on me much greater than the threat of Islamic law. I don’t want any religion telling me what to do. And it doesn’t say “In Allah We Trust” on what little money I have.

    “Now, I suppose a point you can make is “should” we. If people want to live under Shari’a law, does the Rabbit have a right to rip on it. I guess that would be a different conversation”

    That is the exact point I would make. And when you say things like “a threat to the modern world,” you are making it a part of this conversation.

    The bottom line is this. If you or Elric or Rutherford want to be concerned (perhaps “worried” was a poor choice of word before) about Sharia, I don’t have the capacity to change your minds. I just wanted people to have the knowledge that there are many different version, and not just 1. And that they are subject to change. I made it clear in another comment that it is unfortunate that more don’t interpret things in a more modern light, but I wanted to show that they are out there.

    As I said from the beginning, you guys can take that stuff for whatever you think it’s worth. And you’ve made your opinion on it is worth abundantly clear. ;) It’s all good. I feel satisfied I have done my part.

  115. Dude…..whatever you do….keep your eye on the ball and achieve your goal as a professor….

    Just try to remember every now and then, while you skip and hop through Plato’s world of forms, good people are getting their ass kicked.

  116. Iranian artist gets five years in jail for “musical Qur’an”

    Another consequence of Sharia law and its strictures on freedom of speech and expression is a climate of fear that makes creative thought too risky. And its chilling effect reaches far beyond the performing arts, retarding the development of the sciences and other areas of life.

    Mohsen Namju Update. “Iran: Artist gets five year jail term for musical Koran,” from Adnkronos International, July 13:

    Tehran, 13 July (AKI) – An Iranian artist has been sentenced to five years in prison for having put the Koran to music. According to ‘Fardanews’, the Iranian authorities considered the move “offensive to Islamic morality”.

    Mohsen Namju is accused of having ridiculed the Koran, “reciting it in a western and anti-Islamic style”.

    One of the major experts on recitation of the the Koran in Iran, Abbas Salimi, reported the musician to the Islamic court in Tehran.

    The court found the artist guilty for having breached “Islamic morality”.

    After the sentence, Abbas Salimi was reportedly “very satisfied” and underlined the importance of “defending the sacredness of god’s book”.

    “No-one should be able to ridicule it,” he said….

    http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/026921.php#respond

    Hmmm..Id like to know in what country Sharia law is applied where ppl, especially non muslims and women are not oppressed.

  117. Hamas accuses Israel of sending aphrodisiac gum into Gaza, Bill Clinton announces fact-finding mission

    Okay, so the part about Clinton is a joke. But when Hamas accuses Israel of corrupting the young, that is no joke at all. When Hamas levels such a charge, it is aware of the significance it will have for Muslims who know their Qur’an, situating the modern-day Jews as those meriting divinely-mandated retribution:

    “The only reward of those who make war upon Allah and His messenger and strive after corruption in the land will be that they will be killed or crucified, or have their hands and feet on alternate sides cut off, or will be expelled out of the land. Such will be their degradation in the world, and in the Hereafter theirs will be an awful doom.” — Qur’an 5:33

    “Hamas says Israel dumping aphrodisiac gum on Gaza,” from AFP, July 14 (thanks to James):

    GAZA CITY (AFP) — Hamas suspects that Israeli intelligence services are supplying its Gaza Strip stronghold with chewing gum that boosts the sex drive in order to “corrupt the young,” an official said on Tuesday.

    “We have discovered two types of stimulants that were introduced into the Gaza Strip from Israeli border crossings,” Hamas police spokesman Islam Shahwan told AFP.

    “The first type is presented in the form of chewing gum and the second in the form of drops,” he said.

    The Islamist movement that has run the densely populated and impoverished Palestinian territory for the past two years said it has detained members of a gang that helped to bring in the products.

    “They admitted during the investigation they were linked to the Zionist intelligence services,” he said….

    http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/026928.php#respond

    I bet Rev Wright agrees though. Those crafty Joooossss :-)

  118. Red Pill, I’m not dodging your question. Just busy today. will get back on “what we should do” and man up and answer (unlike Elric)

  119. Hamas accuses Israel of sending aphrodisiac gum into Gaza

    ROTFL, how much sillier can things get? Hey, if it’s true, I say bravo! Just Israel’s way of saying “make love not war.” :-D

  120. I suggest you read the corresponding quote from the quran about corruption of the land and the punishment that I posted with it.

    You know, part of that sharia law.

  121. ISNA’s U.S. Government-Approved Racist Hatefest

    In “ISNA’s U.S. Government-Approved Racist Hatefest” at Human Events today, Pamela Geller examines the recent convention of the Islamic Society of North America (ISNA), an unindicted co-conspirator in a jihad terror funding case and close partner of that other unindicted co-conspirator, the Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR):

    The Islamic Society of North America (ISNA) put on a hatefest during its annual convention in Washington over the Fourth of July weekend. The popular American Muslim speaker Hamza Yusuf of California’s Zaytuna Institute illustrated this when he declared July 4th a Muslim Day — because on that day, Muslims defeated the crusaders.

    One featured speaker was the Imam Warith Deen Umar, the former head of New York prisons’ Muslim chaplain program. He spoke about his books, Jews for Salaam: The Straight Path to Global Peace, and Judaiology. Umar repeatedly described Jewish conspiracies to control the world, saying:

    “You need to know that Obama, the first man that Obama picked when we were so happy that he was the President, he picked an Israeli — Rahm Emanuel — his number one man. His number two man — [David] Axelrod — another Israeli person. Why do this small number of people have control of the world…There’s some people in the world says no Holocaust even happened. Some of their leaders say no Holocaust even happened. Well it did happen. These people were punished. They were punished for a reason because they were serially disobedient to Allah.”

    These rants are not surprising. Robert Spencer reminds us: “ISNA was named an unindicted co-conspirator in the Holy Land Foundation (HLF) terror funding case. The Holy Land Foundation, once the nation’s largest Islamic charity, was ultimately found guilty of funneling millions of dollars in charitable contributions to the jihad terror group Hamas.”

    What is surprising is that the Justice Department and the White House are sanctioning this un-indicted co-conspirator. Senior Adviser to the President Valerie Jarrett and officials of the Department of Justice were present at the ISNA convention, where Umar engaged in this hatred of Jews. What does that say?

    Read it all.

    http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/026929.php#respond

    Yes Dodger, what does it say?

  122. dude, write your own shit…….I don’t care If I agree with 90% of your stuff, its fricking boring seeing you post other people’s stuff all day long. This a forum, where we hash out our own ideas, not a battlefield of the information revolution. This is why you are a inefficient toad.

  123. FRANCE: JULY 14; VANDALS BURN 317 AUTOMOBILES
    (ANSAmed) – PARIS, JULY 14 – Some 317 automobiles were burnt last night in Paris on the eve of Bastille Day. The number of vehicles burned, according to an initial police estimate, was up 6.73% compared to the previous years. This type of violence and vandalism have become a sort of “fashion” for youths in the hinterlands of large cities during holidays, particularly that at year’s end. On the night of last December 31, a total of 1,147 cars were burned, up 30.64% compared to the previous year. (ANSAmed).
    2009-07-14 12:14

    http://www.ansamed.info/en/news/ME03.@AM44152.html

    allah loves car-b-ques

  124. And yet the words “Muslim” nor “Islam” even appear anywhere in the article.

    Why?

    Because this had nothing to do with Muslims. It was French youth celebrating Bastile Day.

    Catch a friggen clue, man.

  125. “Youths” is a term reserved for mulims in Eurabia. Sometimes interchangeable with “Asians”, though thats usually in the United Kaliphate.

    Get a clue yourself.

  126. Those Riotous French Youths

    by Baron Bodissey

    For the last several nights, “youths” have been rioting in the French city of Saint-Étienne. Our Flemish correspondent VH has translated a couple of articles from Dutch- and German-language sources.

    First, from Het Vrije Volk:

    Again Riots of Muslim Youth in France.

    Again they set cars on fire. And again, they attack policemen and firemen.

    By E.J. Bron

    Because the 21-year-old delinquent Mohammed Benmouna hanged himself in his prison cell [last Monday, after hanging himself, he went into a coma, and died Wednesday in Saint-Étienne Hospital. He was under arrest for attempted extortion and in custody at the police office of Chambon-Feugerolles (Loire)], last night riots by Muslim youth returned for yet another night. During the third night in succession, it came to heavy riots in a suburb of the French city of Saint-Étienne, where these fellow citizens also set a shopping mall on fire in Firminy and many other small shops [see article below].

    http://gatesofvienna.blogspot.com/2009/07/those-riotous-french-youths.html

    Like I said, get a clue yourself

  127. Elric, “youths” is also a term reserved for young people pretty much everywhere. Surely you’ve heard it used as such?

    Your article above, that is used as an attempt to show how “youths” are Muslims, actually calls the rioters over the prisoner’s death Muslims.

    So why wouldn’t the press call the Bastille Day rioters Muslims if they were?

    What has changed in 5 days?

    Can you copy for us any articles that calls these latest youths Muslim? And I don’t mean commentary pieces based on other news sources.

  128. Red Pill, they are Muslim.

    However, there is a difference between the run of the mill, minority, socio-economic rioting and the jihadist movement. No doubt, the jihadist movement exists in the Parisian suburbs, but sometimes in the case of France, the riots look more like Watts in ’67.

  129. By the way, Red Pill has essentially asked me the same question I asked Elric, though not in such a dramatic form. And, I have to admit, I am dodging a little bit because its a tough one to answer. I have ideas, but I am mulling them over in my mind.

  130. DR: I’ve been looking and was prepared to come here admitting to Elric that I was wrong, but I have yet to find anything reliable that says they are Muslim. And by reliable, I am talking about like not Stormfront (who had “youth” in quotes for their headline), which was 1 of the only places I saw insinuating they were. The closest thing I have found is a quote, something about rioting over the integration of minority immigrants in quotes, but nobody says who the quote is from.

    Not for the purposes of a challenge, but where have you read/heard they are Muslim?

    And I know you aren’t dodging that question. It’s tough, and was almost rhetorical. If the answers were easy we’d have had them long ago.

    I just like razzing Elric because he has carried on so much about dodging questions, and now he is doing it.

  131. “So why wouldn’t the press call the Bastille Day rioters Muslims if they were?”

    Because like the good little dhimmis they are, they dont want to offend muslims.

    “And you are still dodging Rutherford’s question from days ago.”

    What? The childish little button question? Amazing? He dodges just about everything I bring up about Thuggy but you rather harp on me about some button question? Typical

    “I am talking about like not Stormfront (who had “youth” in quotes for their headline), which was 1 of the only places I saw insinuating they were.”

    Hmmmm..putting youths in quotes makes one a neo-nazi? Even you can do better than that.

  132. Spencer: Persecution of Christians Increasing in Iraq

    My column in Human Events this morning discusses the deteriorating situation for the remaining Christians in Iraq:

    On Sunday, July 12, Aziz Rozko Hanna, an Iraqi Christian who was serving as director of the Department of Financial Control of the city of Kirkuk, was driving with his daughter in Dumiz, a Christian neighborhood in Kirkuk, when he was stopped, pulled from his car, and shot dead in front of his daughter.

    On the same day, five churches in Baghdad were bombed, wounding eight civilians. And all this has come after persecution and harassment that has led over half of the Christians in Iraq to leave the country in the last few years. The situation has gotten so bad that the Roman Catholic Archbishop of Baghdad, Jean Benjamin Sleiman, said in May: “I fear the extinction of Christianity in Iraq and the Middle East.”

    http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/026933.php#respond

    But islam is such a tolerant and peaceful “religion”. So I have been told.

  133. KUALA LUMPUR — Malaysian police have arrested nine Christians accused of trying to convert Muslim university students—a serious crime punishable by prison in this Muslim-majority country, a lawyer said Wednesday.

    The suspects have denied the allegation, which could aggravate complaints by religious minorities that authorities are increasingly ignoring their rights in favor of Islam.

    Proselytizing of Muslims by members of other religions is forbidden in Malaysia, though the reverse is allowed. Muslims, who comprise nearly two-thirds of Malaysia’s 28 million people, are also not legally permitted to change religion.

    Police detained the nine in a hostel room at the Universiti Putra Malaysia near Kuala Lumpur late Tuesday, said Annou Xavier, a lawyer who handles cases involving religion. He spoke to The Associated Press by phone from the police station where the nine are being held.

    They claimed they were visiting friends, but a Muslim student apparently filed a police complaint accusing them of trying to convert Muslims, Xavier said.

    http://www.weaselzippers.net/blog/2009/07/malaysia-arrests-9-christians-for-trying-to-convert-muslims.html#comments

    Again intolerance. What gives?

  134. What? The childish little button question? Amazing? He dodges just about everything I bring up about Thuggy but you rather harp on me about some button question? Typical

    Elric, it’s not just ANY button. It’s the button that provides your solution. Don’t you agree? Or do you have some other method of dealing with radical Islam that you find more effective? You see, you’ve made your point … Islam=Bad. Now what is your solution? Don’t have one, do you? It is indeed you who is dodging now.

  135. “Don’t have one, do you? It is indeed you who is dodging now.”

    I wasnt aware that you dodging numerous questions equates one silly button.

  136. Elric, you are an intellectual pantywaist. Answer the damn question. Hell, search for a link. Or concede you don’t have an answer yet. Do something! Think!!!!!!!!!!

  137. Elric: “Because like the good little dhimmis they are, they dont want to offend muslims.”

    But that only addresses half the question.

    Your article above, that is used as an attempt to show how “youths” are Muslims, actually calls the rioters over the prisoner’s death Muslims.

    So why wouldn’t the press call the Bastille Day rioters Muslims if they were?”

    Why did the press call rioters for 1 event Muslims but not for the other event? Even though it was the same kind of event (a riot).

    “Hmmmm..putting youths in quotes makes one a neo-nazi? Even you can do better than that.”

    Don’t put words in my mouth. That isn’t what I said.

    You see, Elric, unlike you, if I want to call someone something, I come out and say it. I don’t beat around the bush and hint around at “what that tells me about you,” I just say it. You should know that by now.

    And regardless of what I did or did not say, Stormfront did put “youths” in quotes, and they were one of the only one’s that came up in my Goggle search that did so. You can read whatever you want into that, but the fact remains.

    “What? The childish little button question? Amazing? He dodges just about everything I bring up about Thuggy but you rather harp on me about some button question?”

    Yes. We’d like you to practice what you preach. Is that really too much to ask?

  138. “So why wouldn’t the press call the Bastille Day rioters Muslims if they were?”

    I told you.

    “Why did the press call rioters for 1 event Muslims but not for the other event? Even though it was the same kind of event (a riot).”

    Because one was the MSM, the other wasnt.

    “And regardless of what I did or did not say, Stormfront did put “youths” in quotes, and they were one of the only one’s that came up in my Goggle search that did so. You can read whatever you want into that, but the fact remains.”

    I dont care what Stormfront does. I dont go to stormfront. Never will. Just thought it was interesting you felt the need to even bring it up.

    “Yes. We’d like you to practice what you preach. Is that really too much to ask?”

    Well since Dodger is about 100 questions ahead of me left unanswered, yes it is. I dont play the lib game where I am required to answer everything they ask but they dont feel they have to do the same.

  139. So I am guessing nobody can produce anything besides unverifiable blogspot articles that says these “youths” were Muslim?

  140. Forget it, DR. If Elric can’t find the answer on JihadWatch, he doesn’t have the sack to play his own game.

    He obviously doesn’t want to admit that he would gladly push an Easy Button and waste every Muslim on the planet. And his xenophobia is so deeply imbedded that he is unable to simply answer the question with “no I wouldn’t push that button.”

  141. Red Pill,

    A search of “Riots in Saint-Étienne” will some what confirm they were Muslims. Tunisian Muslims to be exact. I didn’t do a good job with my homework on this and have no links and didn’t spend a ton of time verifying the sources. But come on man. Riots in Parisian suburbs?

  142. “He obviously doesn’t want to admit that he would gladly push an Easy Button and waste every Muslim on the planet. And his xenophobia is so deeply imbedded that he is unable to simply answer the question with “no I wouldn’t push that button.”

    Awwww…you still mad that muslims are rioting in Paris AGAIN and cant explain it away DOI?

    DOI stands for Defender of Islam. :-)

  143. “Riots in Parisian suburbs?”

    Whats so hard to believe? They had some car-b-ques a few years ago because cops chased some muslim kids into an electrical plant and they got killed.

  144. Whoops: Warith Deen Umar’s antisemitic rant causes embarrassment at ISNA conference

    More on this story. “Antisemitic Rant Causes Red Faces at Islamic Confab,” by Nathan Guttman for Forward, July 15:

    Washington — Efforts to bring together Jewish and Muslim communities hit another snag when an imam at a major Muslim conference gave an incendiary speech in which he said Jews were to blame for the Holocaust.

    The speech came during the annual convention of the Islamic Society of North America, which was attended by rabbis who have been trying to build closer relations between Muslims and Jews.

    At one of the conference’s 70 sessions, Warith Deen Umar, a New York imam, spoke critically of Jews, saying that the Holocaust happened to the Jews “because they were serially disobedient to Allah.” He also said that a small handful of Jews around President Obama “control the world.” ISNA immediately condemned the tenor of the comments. This was enough for some of the Jewish figures in attendance, but not enough for the Jewish terrorism hunter who brought the comments to light.

    http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/026940.php#respond

    Gee who saw this coming? Well besides us “xenophobes”

    “He also said that a small handful of Jews around President Obama “control the world.”

    Thats so funny because Obama’s own hate monger preacher Wright said the same thing a month ago. Dodger never did explain that one away. :-)

  145. Riots in Parisian suburbs?”

    Whats so hard to believe?-‘Elric

    You misunderstood me. I meant it as of course the participants in the Parisian suburbs were rioting. Thats where the riots, usually by Muslims, always are.

  146. “You misunderstood me. I meant it as of course the participants in the Parisian suburbs were rioting. Thats where the riots, usually by Muslims, always are.”

    My bad.

  147. Indonesia: Mayor of Sumatran city orders all students to dress according to Islamic norms

    As described below, the ruling is part of a campaign to attract Malay and particularly Muslim investment, indicating that this will most likely not be the mayor’s last move toward Sharia. Never mind that “the decision ‘is contrary to the Constitution of 1945′ because all legislation must be ‘general’ and not specifically relate ‘to a particular religious confession’.”

    Sharia Alert. “Christians in Sumatra: jilbab norm, an excuse to introduce the Shariah,” by Mathias Hariyadi for AsiaNews, July 16:

    Jakarta (AsiaNews) – The Jilbab is not part of Indonesian culture, but comes from the Arab tradition, to impose a form of dress that conforms to the precepts of Islam reveals “a project to introduce Shariah” and is a blatant “abuse of power.” That is the reaction of Christians in Pekanbaru, capital of Riau province, Sumatra, to the local mayor’s decision to make the traditional clothing that leaves only the face uncovered mandatory by law.

    http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/026943.php#respond

    Just imagine the uproar if muslims in non muslim countries were treated the same way muslims treat non muslims in muslim nations.

  148. U.K.: Christian teacher tells of slurs, abuse by Muslim students as young as 8

    After all, offending the kids and their parents by imposing basic norms of behavior in British society might, you know, “radicalize” them. “Christian teacher tells of race slurs by pupils aged 8,” by Luke Salkeld and Laura Clark for the Daily Mail (thanks to Shiva and Fred_Mk1):

    A teacher claims he has been sacked for reprimanding pupils who made racist remarks about his being a Christian.

    Nicholas Kafouris said he lost his £30,000-a-year post because he would not tolerate the ‘openly racist’ behaviour of pupils as young as eight.

    He said the predominantly Muslim youngsters openly praised Islamic extremists in class, and hailed the September 11 terrorists as ‘heroes and martyrs’.

    Greek-born Mr Kafouris, 40, taught for more than ten years at Bigland Green Primary in Tower Hamlets, East London, where according to the most recent Ofsted report ‘almost all’ the 465 pupils are from ethnic minorities and a vast proportion do not speak English as a first language.

    He is taking the school, its headmistress and assistant head to an employment tribunal where he will claim he was forced out after highlighting the rise in racism among pupils.

    In 2006, said Mr Kafouris, he brushed against a boy while giving him a book.

    ‘He said rather brusquely to me, “Don’t touch me, you’re a Christian”. I found this very offensive.’

    Later that year, he said children aged eight and nine in his class praised the suicide bombers in the 9/11 attacks.

    ‘In late November and December 2006, many various unacceptable and openly racist, anti-Semitic and anti-Christian remarks were being made by many and various children in Year 4,’ he said.

    ‘These included, “We want to be Islamic bombers when we grow up”, “the Twin Towers bombers are heroes and martyrs”, “we hate the Jews” and “we hate the Christians”.’

    And in January 2007, he claims some pupils ‘expressed delight’ that a child had died when a wall collapsed on him in London.

    When asked why, he said one of the children replied: ‘Because he’s English.’ The following month, during a religious education lesson about Jonah and the whale, he claims one of the pupils asked if Jonah was a Jew, before shouting: ‘I hate the Jews, they’re our enemies.’…

    http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/026954.php#respond

    Funny how the only ones that arent multiculturalists are the muslims. Odd, isnt it?

  149. No woman divorces a Muslim man — he divorces her, at his convenience. And if she tries to escape from her marriage to him — especially if her behavior shames him — the consequences can be severe.

    Take this recent example from Belgium:

    Brothers Arrested in Suspected Honour Killing

    Two Pakistani brothers were being held in custody in Belgium on murder charges, a magistrate said in Brussels yesterday, on suspicion that they carried out an honour killing.

    http://gatesofvienna.blogspot.com/2009/07/culturally-enriched-divorce.html#readfurther

    Oh dear, didnt they get the multicultural handbook?

  150. “No woman divorces a Muslim man — he divorces her, at his convenience.”

    And yet I personally know a Muslim woman who has divorced a Muslim man—and taken their child with her.

    Put that in your handbook.

  151. “And yet I personally know a Muslim woman who has divorced a Muslim man—and taken their child with her.

    Put that in your handbook.”

    I bet it was somewhere in the West DOI, so put that in your dhimmi handbook.

  152. Islamic supremacists meet in Chicago, American Muslim groups silent

    Where is the condemnation from all the American Muslim advocacy groups? Where is Honest Ibe Hooper explaining that this is not Islam? Where is CAIR? Where is MPAC? “Islamic Supremacist Group Holds First U.S. Conference,” by Diane Macedo for FoxNews, July 17 (thanks to all who sent this in):

    http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/026957.php#respond

    Where are the multicultural apologists like Dodger and DOI?

  153. “And yet I personally know a Muslim woman who has divorced a Muslim man—and taken their child with her.

    Put that in your handbook.”

    Must also add that DOI makes this out to be some kind of accomplishment and also ignores muslims beating a woman to death out of “honor’. But you know, thats what apologists do I guess. That DOI knows a muslim woman divorced her muslim husband, it washes away all the ingrained violent ideology in islam. Thats what matters, right DOI?

  154. Egypt: Muslims burn church, police arrest Christians

    Another story of police officers’ complicity in the abuse of Egyptian Christians. “Egypt: Police collusion suspected in attack on church in Minya,” from Compass Direct News, July 17:

    http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/026952.php#respond

    I bet DOI knows a muslim who didnt burn a church down so thats makes things all better. Right DOI? :-)

    Bonus points to all the oppression of the Copts after thuggy left Egypt. That speech really had an impact, right Dodger?

  155. No future [Mark Steyn]

    The “alarmism” of my book seems to be going mainstream. Newsweek’s economics editor Daniel Gross belatedly joins the demographic deathwatch on Japan:

    The transformation of developed societies – either into old folks’ homes (like Japan) or semi-Islamized dystopias (like Amsterdam, Brussels, etc) – will lead, in fact, to emigration. A young German or Japanese circa 2040 will have no reason whatsoever to stay in his native land and have most of his income confiscated in a vain attempt to prop up an unsustainable geriatric welfare system. So many will leave. Where will they go? At one time the obvious answer would have been America – but Good King Barack seems determined to saddle us with the same unaffordable entitlements that have scuttled the rest of the west.

    For much of the developed world, the “credit crunch”, the debt burden, and the rest are not part of a cyclical economic downturn but the first manifestations of an existential crisis.

    http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=ZmU0MWFkODk5MTUxZWI4YWQzNGI0NGMzYmRjZWQyMTQ=

  156. “I bet it was somewhere in the West DOI, so put that in your dhimmi handbook.”

    Who cares where it was? All Muslims are the same, remember?

    They all act the same way, and believe the same things, and want to ruin our wonderful world with the same Sharia laws.

    And it must be true, because the internet told you so, right?

  157. Seems DOI is getting frustrated now. :-)

    “Who cares where it was? All Muslims are the same, remember?”

    Did I say that? Making up things now to justify your multicultural relativism? islam is a violent and oppressive ideology and the more devote a muslim is too the teachings of islam and mo-bomb-ed, the more violent and oppressive that muslim will be. With the islamic practice of taqiyya and kitman, its very difficult to really know their true mindset.

    Of course the other hand, the more a person is devoted to the teachings of Christianity and the teachings of Jesus, the more peaceful and tolerant that person will be. And their is nothing in Christianity that teaches deception to non Christians like islam has towards non muslims.

    How you can say they have “similarities” is a laugher.

    So you have anything else DOI?

    “And it must be true, because the internet told you so, right?”

    No. I go by islamic history, islamic text, and current events around the world regarding islam and oppression/violence. What do you have? Oh yeah, a muslim woman that divorced her muslim husband. I wonder why she didnt try a Sharia court. After all, islam is tolerant and peaceful, she would have got a fair shake, right? Oh no she wouldnt because allah said a woman is worth half as much as a man. Damn…

  158. Of course the other hand, the more a person is devoted to the teachings of Christianity and the teachings of Jesus, the more peaceful and tolerant that person will be.

    I hope you’re being sarcastic here, Elric. If not you’re a bigger fool than I originally thought. There are countless ass*oles who consider themselves devout Christians. Now that says nothing about Christianity, it says that ass*oles come in all varieties including Christian and Muslim.

    Oh no she wouldnt because allah said a woman is worth half as much as a man. Damn…

    And the Constitution said a black man was one third of a white man. So America sucks right?

  159. “There are countless ass*oles who consider themselves devout Christians.”

    I guess you couldnt read what I wrote, you must be a greater fool than I thought.

    “And the Constitution said a black man was one third of a white man. So America sucks right?’

    We fought a civil war over it and the Constitution was amended. The Qur’an is the eternal book of allah, it can not be amended so your point is moot. But since thuggy took over and installed his unconstitutional shadow government, America does suck right now.

    Now go back to praying at your Obama shrine and stick to dodging.

  160. Anjem Choudary continues his “Islamic roadshows” while receiving government benefits

    “Choudary’s recruits are told that it is their Muslim duty to claim benefits, ensuring that they make no contribution to the ‘enemy’ British state.”

    “The Jihad fanatic peddling a message of hate to 11-year-old Londoners (funded by the taxpayer),” from the Daily Mail, July 18 (thanks to Persikas1):

    On a hot summer afternoon, a man with a microphone stands on a busy London street. He is a tubby figure and sports a black, bushy beard, flecked with grey. He is shrieking at passing shoppers, insisting they follow him – and save their souls.

    Teams of young, tough-looking men – all clearly devoted to their leader – dart through the crowds, handing out leaflets and haranguing anyone who questions their message.

    From the other side of the street, you could be forgiven for thinking this is a harmless, if colourful, example of citizens making full use of Britain’s ancient tradition of free speech.

    But there is nothing harmless about what is really going on here. For the man with the microphone is Anjem Choudary, branded the most dangerous man in Britain.

    An extremist who believes his sole-calling is to wage holy war against Britain and her ‘infidel’ allies, he is trying – and succeeding – to prepare the ground for his global Islamic jihad.

    Funded by the taxpayer – he claims benefits so that he has plenty of free time to spread his message – Choudary is openly staging these ‘Islamic roadshows’ across Britain. And their aim is to recruit young British men prepared to make the ultimate sacrifice for his chilling cause.

    Islamic law in Britain

    Exhorting Britain’s 1.8 million Muslims to follow his example, Choudary dreams of seeing the black crescent flag, which is the symbol of his organisation, flying over Downing Street, and a draconian form of sharia law imposed across the UK.

    He wants alcohol banned, amputations for thieves, and adulterers to be stoned to death.

    ‘People are living in anarchy,’ he says. ‘There is a rape every minute. Islam has the answer to everything.

    ‘It is a deterrent. If you steal, you know you will face having your hands and feet cut off. Why should I not invite the British people to embrace Islam and save themselves from punishment in the hereafter?’

    In the last six weeks, Choudary has staged six ‘roadshows’ around Britain. He rose to particular prominence when he posted a video on his website of an unidentified 11-year-old white youth called ‘Sean’ being converted to Islam during a show in Birmingham last month. [...]

    None of those I speak to let real work get in the way of their holy war; Choudary’s recruits are told that it is their Muslim duty to claim benefits, ensuring that they make no contribution to the ‘enemy’ British state.

    Choudary leads by example. Now separated from his wife and three children, for years he has received more than £1,700 a month in benefits from the British taxpayer.

    So why is he allowed to preach hate on Britain’s streets? Many anti-terror experts believe Britain’s tolerant policy towards Islamic radicals is dangerously misguided. Quoting Churchill’s famous views on appeasement, one told me it was like ‘feeding a crocodile, hoping it will eat you last’.

    Tory MP Patrick Mercer, chairman of Parliament’s counter terrorism committee, certainly believes that there should be an urgent police investigation into Choudary’s activities.

    ‘He is subverting and suborning vulnerable youngsters with a view to turning them into mujahedin,’ he says.

    ‘We should focus attention on banning organisations which poison the minds of young Muslims and are conveyor belts to terrorism.’

    But back at the Algerian cafe, Choudary again tries to persuade me to convert to Islam.

    ‘We’d have to give you a new name – how about Osama?’ he smirks.

    Then he gets to his feet; the interview is over. With his four minders – burly men in Islamic garb – he strolls out into the London streets.

    As they leave, they all snigger at a private gag. Even wearing smirks, they look dangerous. The joke, it seems, is on us.

    Read it all. The article is long, but summarizes many aspects of the state of affairs concerning Islam in the U.K.

    http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/026960.php#respond

    Isnt multiculturalism wonderful DOI and Dodger? Come on, dont be shy. :-)

  161. I will tell you the same as I told DR. I am not Rutherford, so save your name-calling for him.

    I will engage you again when you drop the childish “DOI” crap, and not before.

  162. Red Pill,

    Except for me being called an “ass hat” (a name that I’ve since been using myself when amongst my softball buddies) I went back and looked for any name calling on my part. Nope. None.

    Sarcastically ripping apart what I believe to be your very naive view of the world?

    Yeah, I suppose.

    Responding with too much “tone” when I hear you parrot the EXACT crap I learned when I got my history degree?

    Maybe.

    But no name calling. I meant everything I said.

    In fact, I’m going to look once more before I hit submit.

    Yup…your complaint was “exaggerated rhetoric”. Sure enough, at times a bad habit, at times a time tested model of proving a point.

    Sorry about my gusto. Sooner or later, you’re going to need some yourself if you want to keep a classroom of 18 year olds awake.

    By the way, your at your best when your “razor sharp logic pill”. Pretty damn cool when your “point out the hypocrisy pill”.

    I just think you fall flat when you’re “the world is so much more complex then you realize pill”.

  163. DR: I wasn’t saying you were name-calling. I was saying that I told you before that I wasn’t Rutherford. Just like you got reminded when you looked back.

    This really doesn’t have anything to do with you except that I used your name as an example. We’ve already had our battle over all that.

    I’m just tired of Elric’s crap. He doesn’t want anyone to call him anything, but that doesn’t stop him from doing it. He doesn’t want anyone to ignore his rhetorical/ridiculous questions, but that doesn’t stop him from doing it.

    Like you said, this is why he gets banned everywhere.

    So rather than stop coming here, I’ll just ignore his ass.

    (On a side note, hope that poison ivy is letting up. I’ve never had it, but I don’t want to even imagine it anywhere near my groin.)

  164. Honestly, it’s been a miniature nightmare. Two nights ago it peaked though, as I think it’s getting better.

    Thanks for asking!

    …and yeah…we already had our battle.

    Sometimes this stuff is almost like WWF wrestling or something. If you think about it, never before have so many people argued. It’s like an unsophisticated version of the Enlightenment Era French salon. Except there are millions and millions of these salons filled up with wannabe Voltaire’s and Jean-Jacques Rousseau’s (“ass hat” versions, of course.)

    Red Pill,

    This shit’s unprecedented. Ultimately, do you think it’s healthy? Maybe the internet isn’t the meeting of the masses but, instead, a high strung splintering?

  165. For society, communication and exchange of ideas is always healthy.

    It just isn’t always healthy for those of us with a heart condition.

  166. I will tell you the same as I told DR. I am not Rutherford, so save your name-calling for him.

    I’m vaguely insulted by the implication that I have less self-respect than the Red Pill. LOL

    Just to set the record straight, the fact that Elric cannot call Obama anything but Thuggy, me anything but Dodger, and lately Red Pill as DOI, says volumes about Elric and not a whole lot about any of us. With each juvenile name-call, he further limits the reach of his arguments. (There was one comment where Elric actually called the President, “Obama”. I relished the slip-up and didn’t point it out to him.) :-)

  167. Maybe the internet isn’t the meeting of the masses but, instead, a high strung splintering?

    I’ve commented on this before, but this medium can get real scary sometimes, fortunately never on this blog (knock on wood). I’ve visited a blog where the rhetoric was so incendiary, so full of rage, and so full of veiled threats, that I really wondered if I was doing my duty as a citizen not to alert the FBI to the blog. (No, it wasn’t WeaselZippers or any of Elric’s other favorite sources.)

    This freedom of expression we all enjoy, DR, cuts both ways. But I think we’re right to give it as wide a berth as possible.

  168. “I relished the slip-up and didn’t point it out to him.) :-)”

    Like when you call muslims oppressing and killing muslims as slip-ups:”

    “Just to set the record straight, the fact that Elric cannot call Obama anything but Thuggy, me anything but Dodger, and lately Red Pill as DOI, says volumes about Elric and not a whole lot about any of us.”

    What does it say about someone who wont comment on thuggy’s 30 plus czars?

    “I’ve visited a blog where the rhetoric was so incendiary, so full of rage, and so full of veiled threats, that I really wondered if I was doing my duty as a citizen not to alert the FBI to the blog.”

    Huffington?

  169. Pakistan: Christians excluded from government reconstruction fund for Swat refugees

    Islamic Tolerance Alert. So much for charity, for that matter. “Swat, Christian refugees excluded from government reconstruction fund,” from AsiaNews, July 16:

    Peshawar (AsiaNews) – The Christian refugees in the Swat valley and Malakand Division are not receiving refugee aid promised by the government to, reports the Pakistan Christian Post, which calls for equal treatment for the three million displaced persons, without any confessional discrimination.

    On July 13 Islamabad initiated proceedings for the return of internally displaced persons. Premier Yousaf Raza Gilan said that the army operations have successfully removed the Taliban from Bonier, Dir, Swat valley and many other parts of Malakand division. Several areas of the north-west of the country – near the border with Afghanistan – are now safe and refugees can return to their homes.

    To encourage a return to normalcy, the government decided to allocate 25 thousand rupees (about 230 euros) compensation for families affected by the war between the army and the Taliban. The first operation for the repatriation of refugees started with the refugees in camps in Mardan, with the delivery of the sum of money as an incentive for the reconstruction of homes.

    The Pakistan Christian Post points out that there are no significant records of Christians in refugee government camps. Only 60 families obtained refugee status from the government: they are registered at the Christian relief centre in Mardan, set up by the Church in Pakistan. But “thousands of Christians” who have been adopted by relatives and friends in the North West Frontier Province and Punjab, risk receiving no compensation.

    In recent weeks, AsiaNews reported on the unequal treatment of Christian victims of the war, driven from the camps for their faith and the victims of multiple discrimination. For this reason, Caritas, the Catholic Church of Pakistan and other Christian organizations have begun fundraising and distribution of food and basic necessities for displaced persons, benefiting both Christians and Muslims.

    Nazir S Bhatti, President of the Pakistan Christian Congress (PCC), expresses “concern” about the disparity of treatment and has asked the government to “ensure compensation to the refugees of Christian faith”, who have found accommodation with relatives.

    http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/026962.php#respond

    Well, they are only non muslims after all.

  170. “So rather than stop coming here, I’ll just ignore his ass.”

    You do that DOI, you were losing the argument anyway. I cant blame you, the best you could come up with was a muslim woman using Western law to win in a divorce case.:-)

    Even Mo’s child bride knew the abuse of islam

    ***Bukhari Volume 7, Book 72, Number 715: Narrated ‘Ikrima: Rifa’a divorced his wife whereupon ‘AbdurRahman bin Az-Zubair Al-Qurazi married her. ‘Aisha said that the lady (came), wearing a green veil (and complained to her (Aisha) of her husband and showed her a green spot on her skin caused by beating). It was the habit of ladies to support each other, so when Allah’s Apostle came, ‘Aisha said, “I have not seen any woman suffering as much as the believing women. Look! Her skin is greener than her clothes!” ….

  171. 40 lashes for man convicted of drinking in public

    An Arab engineer, who has been convicted of drunkenness in a public place, has been sentenced to 40 lashes by a Doha court. The judge dismissed his claim that he could not differentiate between water and wine (writes Nour Abuzant).
    The Moroccan Muslim told the court that he got intoxicated after he went for dinner with his French colleagues and they offered him a drink that he thought was water.
    He was arrested when the car, carrying him and his French colleagues, met with an accident. The traffic police noticed that he was vomiting and there was a stench of alcohol in the atmosphere. He was taken to the Rayyan police in an unconscious state.
    His lawyer argued that his client was not aware that the drink contained alcohol.
    Explaining the conviction, Judge Mamon Hamour said that it was hard to imagine that someone like the accused could be tricked to the extent that he could not differentiate between water and wine.
    “The accused is an engineer and not a new Muslim. Surely he knows that wine is prohibited according to Islam.”
    The court of first instance said that the accused be lashed only after proving that he was medically fit.

    http://www.gulf-times.com/site/topics/article.asp?cu_no=2&item_no=303915&version=1&template_id=36&parent_id=16

    Wow, in some circles this would be considered torture. It must not be because the so called human rights drones arent up in arms about it.

  172. Double standards for outrage: “What does China have that Denmark did not?”

    Indeed: Cartoons in Denmark = fatwas, effigy burnings, riots, and death threats. (See also: Pope Rage.) Chinese suppression of Uighur revolt with actual loss of life = Meh. “Muslim world’s rage missing over Uighurs’ plight,” by Moisés Naím for the Philadelphia Inquirer, July 19:

    Where are the fatwas? The angry marches in front of embassies, the indignant speeches? Where are al-Qaeda’s videos? In short, what does China have that Denmark did not? China has been actively discriminating against Muslims, and recently a number of them have been killed in violent street riots.

    In Denmark a newspaper printed cartoons of the Prophet Muhammad, and the Muslim world erupted in anger. Today that same Muslim world seems to be mute, deaf, and blind, and is oblivious to the violence and discrimination suffered by the Uighurs, a Muslim minority group, at the hands of the Chinese government.

    The reaction to the cartoons was swift and furious. Eleven ambassadors from Muslim countries formally protested to the Danish government. The Danish Consulate in Beirut was burned, and several people died in street riots in Afghanistan, Pakistan, and Somalia. Newspapers in Norway and elsewhere decided to print the cartoons in an act of solidarity, which fueled the wave of violence. Al-Qaeda’s videos and Web sites explained that the offensive cartoons were simply another example of the West’s crusade against Islam.

    Meanwhile . . .

    http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/026963.php#respond

    Yeah, where are the rioting, maiming and killing like the Mo toon riots. You want to know why? Because China isnt a multicultural society and wont put up with that crap like the West does. What say you DOI? :-)

  173. Bangladeshi Who Faces Death Penalty For Advocating Ties With Israel to Appear in Court This Week….

    Salah Uddin Choudhury is courageous man, if only more Muslims who feel like he does (if there are any) had the guts to speak out then the Islamic world wouldn’t be such a fucking mess…..

    (JPost) Since 2003, Bangladeshi journalist and peace activist Salah Uddin Shoaib Choudhury has been investigated by Bangladeshi authorities on charges of sedition, treason and insulting religious belief.

    Choudhury, 44, has spent years opposing Muslim extremism through his writings, especially the Weekly Blitz which he started in 2003. He has called for interfaith dialogue and for normalizing relations between Muslim countries and Israel.

    On Wednesday, Choudhury returns to court. He is accused of insulting Islam and harming the state’s reputation abroad, charges which, when couched as “sedition,” carry a possible death penalty.
    Choudhury’s newspaper offices were bombed on July 6, 2006, after he expressed public sympathy for the Ahmadiyya sect of Islam.

    On October 5, he was attacked in his office by a mob that included prominent members of the then-ruling Bangladesh Nationalist Party, which historically has aligned itself with Islamist parties in the country, who accused him of being an Israeli agent. He was badly beaten.

    Rest here>>>

    Can you feel the “tolerance” DOI?

  174. Today that same Muslim world seems to be mute, deaf, and blind, and is oblivious to the violence and discrimination suffered by the Uighurs, a Muslim minority group, at the hands of the Chinese government.

    Ahhh, Elric finally shows his hand on the “button” question. Elric likes a regime like China that discriminates against Muslims and oppresses them with an iron fist, such that Muslims don’t even protest their abuse. That’s the way Elric likes it.

    Thanks Elric for finally showing where you stand.

  175. You dont even understand what the post about do you? Its pointing out the hypocrisy how the muslim world erupted and rioted and killed over a cartoon of Mo but are silent basically about the Uighurs.

    And please, you certainly dont mind the abuse of non muslims in muslim countries around the world. That must be how you like it.

  176. DEARBORN, Michigan July 19, 2009 (AP)- The hotel conference room was divided: men on the left, women on the right. The speaker, a compact, bearded man in a safari vest, had come to talk about current events and the Quran.

    In the weeks leading up to the gathering, post-election protests had shaken Iran, and the audience of American Shia Muslims wanted to know what to make of the turmoil.

    Imam Mohammad al-Asi, a Michigan-born activist, sounded like a spokesman for the Iranian government. The Iranian protesters, he said, were aiding “the political Jews and the political Christians,” the U.S. government and the Zionists, in a plot to eradicate Islam.

    He cited verses from the Quran that he said backed his views. Then, his voice rising, he ticked off his list of American transgressions against Muslims, from supplying Israel with bombs to building U.S. military bases in Islamic countries.

    “Can’t you see the shaytani character of the U.S. government?” al-Asi demanded, using the Arabic word for “satanic.”

    This was more than a single defiant speech.

    It was part of a struggle over the future of American Shiism.

    Al-Asi spoke at the annual meeting of the Muslim Congress, a Houston-based group that largely looks to Iran’s supreme leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei and Iran’s ruling religious establishment as their highest religious authority.

    The congress, which first met in 2005 with about 400 people, this year attracted more than 1,200 people over the July 4th weekend to Dearborn, considered the heart of Shiism in the U.S.

    Multiculturalism is great!!!!!!!!!!

  177. Iran: Chilling account of rape of young teens so they could be executed legally the morning after

    ‘I wed Iranian girls before execution’

    In a shocking and unprecedented interview, directly exposing the inhumanity of Supreme Leader Ali Khamenei’s religious regime in Iran, a serving member of the paramilitary Basiji militia has told this reporter of his role in suppressing opposition street protests in recent weeks.

    He has also detailed aspects of his earlier service in the force, including his enforced participation in the rape of young Iranian girls prior to their execution.

    He said he had been a highly regarded member of the force, and had so “impressed my superiors” that, at 18, “I was given the ‘honor’ to temporarily marry young girls before they were sentenced to death.”

    In the Islamic Republic it is illegal to execute a young woman, regardless of her crime, if she is a virgin, he explained. Therefore a “wedding” ceremony is conducted the night before the execution: The young girl is forced to have sexual intercourse with a prison guard – essentially raped by her “husband.”

    “I regret that, even though the marriages were legal,” he said.

    Why the regret, if the marriages were “legal?”

    “Because,” he went on, “I could tell that the girls were more afraid of their ‘wedding’ night than of the execution that awaited them in the morning. And they would always fight back, so we would have to put sleeping pills in their food. By morning the girls would have an empty expression; it seemed like they were ready or wanted to die.

    “I remember hearing them cry and scream after [the rape] was over,” he said. “I will never forget how this one girl clawed at her own face and neck with her finger nails afterwards. She had deep scratches all over her.
    Continue>>>

    http://www.weaselzippers.net/blog/2009/07/iran-chilling-account-of-rape-of-young-teens-so-they-could-be-executed-legally-the-morning-after.html

    Makes me so proud Thuggy stayed neutral

    /Sarc

  178. One-Way Free Speech
    By Janet Levy

    On July 19th, a conference entitled “The Fall of Capitalism and the Rise of Islam” took place as scheduled at the Hilton Hotel in Oak Lawn, Illinois, a Chicago suburb. There, in the heartland of a post 9/11America, Hizb-ut Tahrir, an international organization outlawed as a terrorist group in several European and Middle East countries, sponsored sessions focusing on strategies to end free enterprise and replace it with Shari’ah law.

    Hizb-ut Tahrir is no academic think-tank simply examining public issues. It is an international group reported to have over a million members, including cells in more than 40 countries. It supports the Taliban and Hamas, sanctions suicide bombing and has called for the killing of nonbelievers. It has spawned terrorists for Al Qaeda, Hamas and Jemaa Islamiya; subscribes to the mantra that “jihad has to continue till the Day of Judgment;” and endeavors to replace existing governments with a worldwide Khilafah (Caliphate) or Islamic government under Shari’ah law.

    It is remarkable enough that a conference of this nature by a group that advocates the overthrow of the U.S. government actually took place in an American city. Perhaps even more disturbing is the growing number of cancellations of events and conferences that feature the opposite point of view with material and speakers that seek to educate the public about the threat of radical Islam. Increasingly, our country’s prized right to freedom of speech seems to operate in only one direction, providing plenty of opportunities for our enemies to speak openly against us, yet, placing a gag over any discussion about the radical Islam threat.

    Here are some disturbing recent examples.

    http://www.americanthinker.com/2009/07/oneway_free_speech.html

    Hmmm I wonder why they picked Chicago. Did you happen to attended DOI? It would explain why you didnt post yesterday. :-)

  179. Somalia: Convert from Islam shot dead

    And no one stopped the shooter and explained to him that the traditional Islamic death penalty for apostasy was a dead letter, spoken about today only by greasy Islamophobes.

    “Somalia: Convert From Islam Shot Dead: Islamic extremist rebel group hunts down underground church leader,” from Compass Direct, July 20 (thanks to James):

    NAIROBI, Kenya, July 20 (Compass Direct News) – Muslim extremists early this morning killed a Christian convert in Mahadday Weyne, Somalia, 100 kilometers (62 miles) north of Mogadishu.

    Al Shabaab Islamist rebels shot Mohammed Sheikh Abdiraman to death at 7 a.m., eyewitnesses told Compass. They said the Islamic extremists appeared to have been hunting the convert from Islam, and when they found him they did not hesitate to shoot him.

    The sources told Compass that Abdiraman was the leader of an underground “cell group” of Christians in Somalia.

    “We are very sad about this incident, and we also are not safe,” one eyewitness said by telephone. “Pray for us.”

    The sources were too distraught to share more details about Abdiraman’s death. Another eyewitness who requested anonymity said Abdiraman had been a Christian for 15 years. He is survived by two children, ages 15 and 10. His wife died three years ago due to illness.

    Intent on “cleansing” Somalia of all Christians, al Shabaab militia are monitoring converts from Islam especially where Christian workers had provided medical aid, such as Johar, Jamame, Kismayo and Beledweyne, sources said. Mahadday Weyne, 22 kilometers (14 miles) north of Johar, is the site of a former Christian-run hospital….

    http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/026973.php#respond

    I heard a rumor that a muslim woman used a kaffir court to get a divorce so all is good.

  180. Jordanian authorities have started revoking the citizenship of thousands of Palestinians living in Jordan to avoid a situation in which they would be “resettled” permanently in the kingdom, Jordanian and Palestinian officials revealed on Monday.

    The new measure has increased tensions between Jordanians and Palestinians, who make up around 70 percent of the kingdom’s population.

    The tensions reached their peak over the weekend when tens of thousands of fans of Jordan’s Al-Faisali soccer team chanted slogans condemning Palestinians as traitors and collaborators with Israel.Al-Faisali was playing the rival Wihdat soccer team, made up of Jordanian-Palestinians, in the Jordanian town of Zarqa.

    Anti-riot policemen had to interfere to stop the Jordanian fans from lynching the Wihdat team members and their fans, eyewitnesses reported.They said the Jordanian fans of Al-Faisali hurled empty bottles and fireworks at the Palestinian players and their supporters.

    Reports in a number of Jordanian newspapers said that theJordanian fans also chanted anti-Palestinian slogans and cursed Palestine, the PLO, Jerusalem and the Aksa Mosque.

    http://www.weaselzippers.net/blog/2009/07/its-come-to-this-british-dhimmis-using-uk-sharia-courts.html

    Funny how the Pali’s Arab brothers treat the Palis. Like I said, they are a proxy against the Jews and Israel. Thats it.

  181. American Library Association Abandons Principle, Allows Censorship

    164_large.jpg

    Steven Emerson explores the recent episode in which the American Library Association caved to pressure from the Hamas-linked Council on American Islamic Relations and allowed one of its panels to be censored.

    “Library Association Abandons Principle, Allows Censorship,” by Steven Emerson for IPT News, July 21:

    When an organization organizes an annual banned books week to celebrate “the freedom to express one’s opinion even if that opinion might be considered unorthodox or unpopular,” it is a little disturbing to see the same group cancel a panel discussion because one of the invited speakers is considered objectionable.

    But that’s how the American Library Association (ALA) handled pressure from the Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR) to silence an invited speaker for a panel discussion at its annual convention who has a perspective on Islam, jihad, and terrorism that CAIR doesn’t like.

    Jihad Watch director Robert Spencer, author of eight books on Islam and jihad, had been scheduled to appear July 12 on an ALA panel entitled “Perspectives on Islam: Beyond the Stereotyping.” ALA canceled the panel after the other speakers decided to boycott the panel due to Spencer’s participation. But rather than inviting others to replace them, or letting Spencer honor his commitment, the ALA capitulated and gave the critics what they wanted.

    CAIR spearheaded the drive to silence Spencer. In a letter to the ALA, CAIR-Chicago Executive Director Ahmed Rehab said he agreed in principle with promoting a diversity of opinions and opposing censorship. Still, he wrote “I ask you to rescind the invitation to Mr. Spencer in order to maintain the integrity of the panel and the reputation of the ALA.” Spencer, he argued, offered “grotesque viewpoints that lie well outside the bounds of reason and civilized debate.”

    This complaint is from a guy who can’t bring himself to condemn terrorist groups Hamas and Hezbollah, who has minimized the depth of the Holocaust and claimed Jews control the media.

    Read it all.

    http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/026986.php#respond

    I bet DOI is doing cartwheels

  182. Munich – Munich police are questioning a 27-year-old Afghan man suspected of stabbing his former wife to death “in the name of the Koran,” police sources said Tuesday.

    A Munich police spokesman said the 24-old Afghan woman Nesima R., whose full name was withheld for legal reasons, had been stabbed some 20 times, and that the suspect had given the Koran as a justification for the attack.
    The pair are believed to have been married while in Afghanistan, although when Zafar, a 27-year-old unemployed painter, came to Germany in 2008, he found the woman in a new relationship with a cousin.

    Police think that the former couple, who have a daughter, may themselves have been cousins.

    The 3-year-old daughter was an eyewitness to the stabbing, which took place early on Monday morning. A niece of the victim also saw the attack, which occurred outside her apartment.

    http://www.weaselzippers.net/blog/2009/07/another-honor-killing-in-germany-afghan-man-murders-cheating-wife-says-killing-was-in-the-name-of-th.html#comments

    Gotta love multiculturalism, eh DOI?

  183. Jihad in Indonesia’s Classroom
    Filed Under (Islamic Supremacism, Islamic hypocrisy, Islamists, Jihad, Sharia (Islamic Law)) by Rodan
    July 21, 2009 at 10:24 am

    Indonesia which was considered one of the most “tolerant” Muslim nations, appears to be changing. New Islamic Schools are indoctrinating young Indonesian on the true Islam. It is like Robert Spencer has shown, Moderate Muslims are just lax Muslims, when they become religious, Jihad is on their mind.

    Last Friday’s hotel bombings in Jakarta have focused attention yet again on a network of radical Islamic boarding schools across Indonesia that continues to espouse the cause of violent jihad and churn out eager young zealots willing to die in its name.

    Four days after the bombings, investigators have linked them to two Islamic schools that are well known to the Indonesian authorities but have neither been shut down nor had their activities or teachings curtailed.

    The first of these is the now notorious Al Mukmin pesantren (boarding house) at Ngruki in Solo, Central Java, where the Marriott suicide bomber is reported to have been schooled.

    Read the rest.

    Those Moderate Muslims, once exposed to their religion’s teachings aren’t so moderate anymore. What does that tell you?

    http://www.littlegreenfootballs2.com/2009/07/21/jihad-in-indonesias-classroom/

    What does that tell you DOI?

  184. Dhaka (AsiaNews) – The victim of repeated rapes who has become pregnant is being forced by local leaders to marry the man who abused her and sentenced to a beating for the “crime” committed. This is the story of a teenager in the village of Char Padma in Faridpur district of central Bangladesh.

    Omar Faruk is a teacher from the “Maktab”, the village Islamic school. The imam has long abused the minor, taking advantage of the position of prestige within the local community. The girl is in the seventh month of pregnancy, her physical and mental health are not good, and she risks a premature birth.

    For several months she hid the violence and pregnancy, for fear and shame. When her belly started to grow, the news spread throughout the village. On July 18 last the Arbitration Council met, consisting of a group of experts led by Fazlur Rahman Fazal, to discuss the matter and issue a verdict. The meeting ended with a conviction of 101 lashings a head for the young girl and the imam, author of the violence.

    Local sources revealed that both have already received 25 beatings, pursuant to the decision. The girl will even have to marry her torturer, who has two previous marriages behind him.

    http://www.weaselzippers.net/blog/2009/07/bangladesh-teenage-girl-sentenced-to-101-lashings-and-forced-to-marry-imam-who-raped-and-impregnated.html#comments

    All cultures are equal, just “different”.

  185. Muslim “public” school in Minneapolis linked to Somali youths who returned home to wage jihad

    Tarek ibn Ziyad Academy Update: ties to the Muslim Brotherhood, ties to the missing Somali jihadists — and complaints about losing the substantial amount they get from the state! “Two on TiZA: Using taxpayer money for the Stealth Jihad?,” by acorcoran at Refugee Resettlement Watch, July 22 (thanks to herr Oyal):

    TiZA is the Tarek ibn Ziyad Academy. We told you about the Minnesota charter school before, here. Thanks to reader Mars for alerting us to them, below are two recent stories to bring us up to date on the ACLU lawsuit against the school and its founders—the Muslim America Society (MAS), Minnesota chapter.

    It might be useful for readers to first visit this 2004 article from the Chicago Tribune to understand how the MAS sprang from the Muslim Brotherhood in the US. The lengthy investigative report was one of the first things I read when I began studying the issue of Islam and its plans for us. I think you will be as stunned as I was to see what the goals are and for how long the stealth jihad has been going on in the US.

    The first of my two articles today is from Katherine Kersten who is obviously the expert on the TiZA. I can’t believe I am cheering for the ACLU.

    The ACLU of Minnesota made headlines in January when it sued Tarek ibn Ziyad Academy (TiZA), a public K-8 charter school in Inver Grove Heights. The suit — which followed media reports of organized prayers and a pervasive religious environment at TiZA — alleged that the school is violating constitutional prohibitions against government endorsement of religion.

    “It’s a theocratic school,” state ACLU director Chuck Samuelson told City Pages. “It is as plain as the substantial nose on my face.”

    In the six months since the suit was filed, TiZA has fought tooth and nail — erecting procedural barriers to prevent the ACLU from investigating what goes on there.

    The school’s efforts to avoid public scrutiny are part of a well-established pattern.

    [....]

    The reasons for TiZA’s obsession with secrecy may become clear if the ACLU prevails on pending motions regarding its “standing to sue.” A court ruling is expected soon.

    Now, can you believe this, Kersten says the TiZA issue ties into the missing Somali youths case. Here is how:

    The ACLU suit may reveal a Minnesota public school that is funneling state funds to an activist Islamic organization, and has connections to a controversial imam whose mosque is under scrutiny in the case of the disappearing Twin Cities Somali youths.

    [....]

    ….A key figure here is Imam Hassan Mohamud, a founding TiZA board member and “director/developer” who has served as the school’s board secretary. According to news reports, he is also director of MAS-MN’s Islamic Law Institute. In 2006, he signed the MAS-MN “fatwa” forbidding Muslim airport taxi drivers from “cooperating in sin” by transporting passengers carrying alcohol.

    [....]

    Mohamud serves as imam at Minnesota Dawah Institute in St. Paul — a target of scrutiny in the missing youths case. Some of the missing boys’ parents say “their sons spent a lot of time” at Dawah Institute, according to National Public Radio. Mohamud has denied that the mosque played any role in the disappearances. In January, he told the Star Tribune that no one from the mosque had left for Somalia “except one man who went for his health.”

    After you stop laughing, consider the fact that lying for the sake of Allah is permitted in Islam. It is another one of those Islamic laws that people raised with the Judeo-Christian concept of the Ten Commandments can’t get our heads around.

    Our second TiZA story today was actually published a few days before Katherine Kersten’s article and in it we learn that TiZA is now suing the state of Minnesota which is threatening to cut off over a million dollars from the stunning $4 milion the school got in 2008-2009. TiZA likely figures this is infidel money which they, as superior Muslims, deserve.

    There is much more. Read it all.

    http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/026990.php#respond

    I cant say Im shocked but then I am an “islamophobe” and a “xenophobe” :-)

  186. The New York Taliban and Osama bin Laden supporter formerly known as Joseph Cohen, Yousef al-Khattab, claims he has called the family of American hostage Bowe Bergdahl.

    Thank God that the Bergdahl family didn’t answer the phone, or they might have heard Yousef claiming that their son — who the Taliban are threatening to murder — is a “colonial occupier” fighting for the Zionists in Israel.

    Here’s what Kattab says over at Islamic Awakening:

    The Taliban Mujihadeen have captured a American (USA) colonialist occupier, and USAF Ret. Lt. Col. Karen Kwiatkowski had stated HERE that “The Operation in Afghanistan is rooted in Israel”. This motivated me to call PFC. Bowe Bargdahl’s family who did not pick up the phone. The next best person I tried to contact was Sheriff Walt Femling & was kindly given the oppurtunity to leave my questions for him on his voice mail.

    Unable to reach the Bergdahl famlily, Khattab calls the Sherrif’s office. He’s posted a YouTube video of the phone call here. The visual message overlaid on the phone call is an apparent attempt to equivocate between US treatment of terrorist prisoners with the treatment the Taliban are giving to Pfc. Bergdahl. No mention of the fact that the Taliban murder their prisoners.

    Khattab is a traitor, a scumbag, and an all around piece of excrement. He lives and works in New York City.

    Rest here>>>

    http://www.weaselzippers.net/blog/2009/07/unfuckingreal-nyc-terror-supporter-yousef-alkhattab-aka-joooey-cohen-calls-family-of-us-soldier-bein.html#comments

    Im sure DOI will defend him in some moral relativism kind of way.

  187. A 26-year-old Long Island truck driver — who went to Pakistan to be trained by al Qaeda — has been charged with firing rockets at a US military base in Afghanistan, court documents revealed today.

    Bryant Neal Vinas, who converted to Islam at a Long Island mosque, was arrested in Pehsawar, Pakistan after trying to kill GIs in the September 2008 attack.

    http://www.nypost.com/seven/07222009/news/nationalnews/long_island_man_charged_with_attack_on_u_180725.htm

    What do you know, another convert. So why do these people feel the need to convert to islam? Anyone want to take a wild guess?

  188. CAIR rep throws out red herrings on Fox News about Islamic supremacist group

    Ahmed Rehab of the Hamas-linked Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR), fresh from a victory over free speech at the American Library Association, claims that he supports the Constitution, but that’s the least of it. In this Fox News interview, he strews the path to any clear understanding of the Hizb-ut-Tahrir Islamic supremacist conference in Chicago with red herrings.

    Rehab says about Hizb-ut-Tahrir, “This organization has been on the record privately and publicly condemning terrorism.” (So has Rehab been in private contact with the leaders of Hizb-ut-Tahrir?) But terrorism is only part of the problem. Rehab has nothing of substance to say about Hizb-ut-Tahrir’s explicit desire to impose Islamic law upon the United States other than to assert blandly that he and others like him believe in the Constitution — which completely sidesteps the question of whether they want to exploit contemporary understandings of that Constitution’s protections and guarantees in order to bring elements of Sharia here.

    He says he believes in capitalism, voting, and civic responsibility, but the reporters don’t ask him anything about Sharia. Nor do they ask him any probing questions about the fact that CAIR is an unindicted co-conspirator in a Hamas terror funding case. Its operatives have repeatedly refused to denounce Hamas and Hizballah as terrorist groups. Several of its former officials have been convicted of various crimes related to jihad terror. Several of its other officials have made Islamic supremacist statements (Omar Ahmad and Ibrahim Hooper are quoted at the link). CAIR also was involved in the Flying Imams’ intimidation suit against the passengers who reported their suspicious behavior.

    I suspect that this video also shows why Rehab ducked me instead of meeting me on the ALA panel — he could be reasonably sure that the Fox anchors here would not be informed enough to ask him uncomfortable questions, but I would not hesitate.

    http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/026993.php#respond

  189. The New Tower of Babel

    by Baron Bodissey

    The “cultural enrichment” meme has stirred a lot of interesting discussion here in the last few weeks. Today I read a couple of comments that should be yoked together, even though they’re on different threads.

    So here they are, edited slightly for spelling, punctuation, and clarity. The first one is by TB, from last night’s post about the horrendous honor killing in Germany:

    http://gatesofvienna.blogspot.com/2009/07/new-tower-of-babel.html#readfurther

  190. WASHINGTON, D.C. (ANS) — A human rights organization has learned that a Christian businessman was shot eight times in the legs while driving through Lahore, Pakistan after refusing to pay protection money to a Muslim.

    According to a news release from Christian human rights organization International Christian Concern (ICC),Suqlain Shah, a former policeman, and another man, Sudia, stopped Ayub Gill’s car at 2:25 p.m. on July 7, as Ayub was going to buy a property in a nearby town.

    Ayub’s brother Babar was driving and two other relatives were in the back seat. Suqlain pulled out a gun and dragged Babar out of the driver’s seat, threatening to kill him.

    Rest here>>>

    http://www.weaselzippers.net/blog/2009/07/pakistan-christian-man-shot-8-times-for-refusing-to-pay-jizya-tax.html#comments

    Why would one need to pay protection money to a peaceful religion? Any idea Dodger? DOI? Anyone?

  191. MAS paid for Congressman’s pilgrimage to Mecca with TiZA exec
    July 22, 2009 by creeping

    A tangled web Ellison, MAS, and TiZA weave.

    The Muslim American Society (MAS) – a “front group for the Muslim Brotherhood” – paid for Democrat Keith Ellison’s Islamic trek to Mecca, but that’s not the entire story. MAS’ president, Asad Zaman, actually joined Ellison on the trip. Escorted perhaps.

    Zaman is also an executive director at TiZA, the taxpayer financed Islamic charter school (TiZA) currently being sued by the ACLU of Minnesota for teaching Islam.

    http://creepingsharia.wordpress.com/2009/07/22/mas-paid-for-congressmans-pilgrimage-to-mecca-with-tiza-exec/

  192. Possible honor killing in Canada: Three Muslim sisters murdered; parents and brother arrested

    Rona Amir Mohammed’s sister, Diba Masoomi, said: “We are convinced that this is a crime of honour.” We learn here that “the teenage girls dressed in modern fashion,” which may have been part of the problem.

    Pamela has been following this strange and terrible story very closely, and has photos and much more information here.

    “Family held in canal deaths,” by Andrew Chung for the Toronto Star, July 23 (thanks to all who sent this in):

    MONTREAL–Police are investigating the death of three sisters found in their car at the bottom of the Rideau Canal in Kingston three weeks ago as a possible “honour” killing.

    Three suspects arrested Wednesday in Montreal on their way to the airport, possibly to flee the country, are believed to the sisters’ father, Mohammed Shafi, his wife, and his 18-year-old son, the La Presse newspaper reported.

    Kingston police have scheduled a news conference for 2 p.m. where Police Chief Stephen Tanner will outline the details of a major change in focus of the investigation. Up to now, police have only gone so far as to call the deaths “suspicious.”

    The Shafi sisters – Zainab, 19, Sahar, 17 and Geeti, 13 – died along with their aunt, Rona Amir Mohammed, on June 30. The family was returning from a trip to Niagara Falls and Toronto when they stopped for the night at a motel in Kingston.

    The car was found that morning, submerged in the Rideau Canal, the bodies of the victims inside.

    Officially, Kingston police would only say yesterday there had been a “change in the status” of the investigation based on “what’s happened in the last 24 hours.”

    “It was a suspicious death and that has been changed,” said Kingston police spokesman Const. Mike Menor. “We’re not saying what that is.”

    However, Kingston Police have been investigating for the last two weeks the allegation the deaths were an honour killing, police sources told the Kingston Whig Standard.

    The family is Muslim and hails from Kabul, Afghanistan. They lived in Dubai for 15 years before arriving in Canada two years ago.

    Kingston Police apparently received information that Rona Amir Mohammed is actually the first wife of Mohammed Shafi, that the couple had married in Kabul 30 years ago, and the marriage had been kept secret since their arrival in Canada.

    The information came from Rona Amir Mohammed’s sister, Diba Masoomi, who lives in France. Masoomi also sent along a photo, claiming it is of the of the couple at their wedding. “We are convinced that this is a crime of honour,” Masoomi wrote in an email sent to the police chief’s office roughly two weeks ago.

    Masoomi said her sister feared for her life. “For some time, my sister, as well as the Shafi couple’s oldest daughter, Zainab, had been receiving death threats for social, cultural and family reasons,” she wrote.

    In the days following the deaths, Shafi, 57, told reporters the dthat [sic] Rona Amir Mohammed was his cousin, and she was always described as the children’s aunt. Tooba Mohammad Yhaya, 37, introduced herself as Shafi’s wife.

    Family members speculated to reporters that one of the older sisters, likely Zainab, might have taken the car out to practise driving. They said she was rebellious and had taken the car in the past. However, the circumstances were always uncertain, particularly how the car made it all the way to the water.

    The Shafis are not conservative Muslims, a Montreal relative of Yhaya, Said Fazel, told the Star.

    The teenage girls dressed in a modern fashion, though reservedly, and did not even wear headscarves, said neighbour Joyce Gilbert, who lives below the family. She described them as “angels.”…

    Masoomi told the Kingston newspaper that Rona Amir Mohammed could not have children, and so Shafi took a second wife, a practice not uncommon in Afghani culture. Masoomi said her sister remained with the family and raised the children, even when they moved to Dubai….

    “Afghani culture.” Not “Islamic culture.” Certainly not “Islamic law.” And never will you see a story that says that polygamy is “sanctioned by the Qur’an.”

    http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/026996.php#respond

    This is what multiculturalism brings you.

  193. Yep Dodger is too scared to answer a question. How are my posts “anti-muslim”? You accused me of something, dont I have the right to ask to to clarify it?

  194. Why the silence on Muslim violence against Hindus in Bangladesh?

    “This is not about one terrible event, but about a system of legalised ethnic cleansing that has proceeded non-stop for decades and which places every one of Bangladesh’s 13,000,000-15,000,000 Hindus at risk.” Yet the Bangladeshi Government, not surprisingly, looks the other way, and the remaining Hindus in Bangladesh are too terrified to speak out.

    “A terrifying existence,” by Richard L Benkin in The Pioneer, July 21 (thanks to B.):

    Why this silence on organised anti-Hindu violence in Bangladesh?

    Reports began trickling out of Bangladesh this spring about an anti-Hindu violence in the heart of its capital carried out in three stages: March 30, April 17, and April 29. A community of approximately 400 Hindus was reportedly going about its business when “hundreds of Muslims” suddenly descended on them and demanded they quit the homes where they and their families had lived for the past 150 years. Witnesses also report that police watched passively while attackers beat residents and destroyed a Hindu temple.

    http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/027000.php#respond

    Yes why the silence Dodger, DOI? Is it because you cant defend your multicultural beliefs anymore so are too afriad to say anything now?

  195. Honduras confirms existence of terrorist cells in Latin America
    By creeping

    An update to several recent posts (here and here) regarding Latin America and the threat of Islamic terrorists, particularly from Iran and Hizbollah. Honduras has recognized the threat and will make it harder for Iranians to get visas to their country.

    http://creepingsharia.wordpress.com/2009/07/23/honduras-confirms-existence-of-terrorist-cells-in-latin-america/

    The Leftist/islamic alliance gets stronger

  196. Watery Graves [Mark Steyn]

    Three or so weeks back, a submerged car was found in the Rideau Canal in Kingston, Ont., containing the bodies of three teenage girls and their aunt — a story initially reported as Mysterious Death Of 4 Quebecers Baffles Kingston Police. When it emerged that the four female Quebecers were, in fact, Muslim, the tearful parents offered up a strange tale of an impromptu midnight driving lesson gone tragically wrong (Driving Lesson May Have Led To Drowning).

    La Presse is now reporting that the girls’ father, mother, and brother have been arrested en route to Montreal Airport, and that the deceased “aunt” or (alternatively) “cousin” was, in fact, the girls’ father’s first wife. The words “crime d’honneur” are beginning to creep into newspaper accounts.

    Meanwhile, the blogger Scaramouche suggests that, while they’re looking into honor killings in the Kingston area, the constabulary might take a gander at another curious aquatic accident this month:

    Police say 14-year-old Kinza Kaianad died Monday evening at Kingston General Hospital as a result of injuries she sustained Saturday in a hotel pool in Gananoque, roughly 30 kilometres east of Kingston.

    Her mother, 43-year-old Naila Yasmin, died in hospital on Sunday.

    Yasmin, Kaianad and another daughter, age 11, were found unconscious in the indoor hotel pool just before 9 a.m. Saturday.

    There would seem to be a statistically improbable number of multiple drownings of female members of Muslim families in Kingston this summer. If you’re a young female Muslim, and you have any say in the matter, you might want to vacation elsewhere.

    [UPDATE: The third Muslim girl found in the swimming pool has died. That's seven drowned young Muslim females showing up in the same morgue within a month. In other circumstances, they'd be planning the movie with Ashley Judd or some such as the crusading feminist Assistant DA. But as the M-word's involved I expect poor Zainab Shafi and the rest will be quickly forgotten.]

  197. Shocker: Number of Anti-Semitic Attacks Skyrockets in Islamist-Infested UK….

    The number of attacks in the first half of 2009 has already surpassed all of 2008 (609 vs. 544)….

    LONDON — The government said it was “deeply concerned” by a report Friday revealing an upsurge of anti-Semitic attacks this year in the wake of Israel’s devastating three-week offensive in Gaza.

    The Community Security Trust (CST) said there were 609 anti-Semitic incidents in the first half of this year including attacks on people and synagogues.

    That compares to 276 for the first six months of 2008 — and even surpasses the 544 incidents reported in the whole of that year.

    Explaining its findings in a report, the CST said: “The main reason for this record number of incidents was the unprecedented number of anti-Semitic incidents recorded during January and February, during and after the war between Israel and Hamas in Gaza.

    “The number of incidents recorded did not return to normal pre-Gaza levels until April, some three months after the fighting in Gaza ended.”

    The charity, which works to protect the safety of the Jewish community here, said there were 286 anti-Semitic incidents in January — up from 43 for the same month in 2008 — and 111 in February, an increase from 52 twelve months before.

    And you wonder why I included the UK

  198. Why doesn’t anyone talk about the Turkish occupation of northern Cyprus?

    This week marks thirty-five years of the Turkish occupation and ethnic cleansing of northern Cyprus. People have been driven out of their homes, churches have been converted into mosques, and the thriving resort of Famagusta transformed into a ghost town. Nobody cares. Instead, the trumped-up plight of the “Palestinians,” an invented nationality committed to the eradication of a sovereign state in the name of Islamic jihad, occupies the world’s attention.

    “Turkish Invasion and Cyprus Occupation,” from CyprusNet (thanks to LGF2):

    On 15 July 1974 the ruling military junta of Greece staged a coup to overthrow the democratically elected Government of Cyprus.

    On 20 July Turkey, using the coup as a pretext, invaded Cyprus, purportedly to restore constitutional order. Instead, it seized 35% of the territory of Cyprus in the north, an act universally condemned as a gross infringement of international law and the UN Charter. Turkey, only 75 km away, had repeatedly claimed, for decades before the invasion and frequently afterwards, that Cyprus was of vital strategic importance to it. Ankara has defied a host of UN resolutions demanding the withdrawal of its occupation troops from the island.

    On 1 November 1974, the UN General Assembly unanimously adopted Resolution 3212, the first of many resolutions calling for respect for the sovereignty, independence, territorial integrity and non-alignment of the Republic of Cyprus and for the speedy withdrawal of all foreign troops.

    Furthermore, the General Assembly, the Security Council and the Commission on Human Rights of the United Nations as well as the Non-Aligned Movement, the Commonwealth, the European Parliament, the Council of Europe and other international organizations have demanded the urgent return of the refugees to their homes in safety and the full restoration of all the human rights of the population of Cyprus.

    The invasion and occupation has had disastrous consequences. About 142.000 Greek Cypriots living in the north – nearly one quarter of the population of Cyprus – were forcibly expelled from the occupied northern part of the island where they constituted 80% of the population. These people are still deprived of the right to return to their homes and properties. A further 20.000 Greek Cypriots enslaved in the occupied area were gradually forced through intimidation and denial of their basic human rights to abandon their homes. Today there are fewer than 600 enslaved persons (Greek Cypriots and Maronites)….

    http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/027006.php#respond

    Any idea Dodger….DOI?

  199. How are my posts “anti-muslim”?

    I know you despise a question being answered with a question but:

    When have you ever had a single kind word to say about followers of Islam? Let’s use a form of deductive logic here.

    Your posts certainly can’t be described as pro-Muslim.
    It would be virtually impossible to describe your posts as Muslim-neutral.
    So, what does that leave? Anti-Muslim.

  200. So being critical of islam is “anti’muslim”?

    “When have you ever had a single kind word to say about followers of Islam? ”

    When a serious effort by muslims to reform islam takes place, Ill give them props. Until then, I can only assume the islamic world is content on how islam is.

    And since you are never critical of islam, I can safely say you are pro muslim. Given you are a lib its a given.

    For example, I post some articles of the rise of honor killings in the West. Of course I am critical of it so therefore “anti-muslim”. That you didnt comment must mean you are pro-muslim. :-)

  201. A publicly funded exhibition is encouraging people to deface the Bible in the name of art — and visitors have responded with abuse and obscenity.

    The show includes a video of a woman ripping pages from the Bible and stuffing them into her bra, knickers and mouth.

    The open Bible is a central part of Made in God’s Image, an exhibition at the Gallery of Modern Art (Goma) in Glasgow. By the book is a container of pens and a notice saying: “If you feel you have been excluded from the Bible, please write your way back into it.”

    The exhibit, Untitled 2009, was proposed by the Metropolitan Community Church, which said that the idea was to reclaim the Bible as a sacred text. But to the horror of many Christians, including the community church, visitors have daubed its pages with comments such as “This is all sexist pish, so disregard it all.” A contributor wrote on the first page of Genesis: “I am Bi, Female & Proud. I want no god who is disappointed in this.”

    You think they would ever do this with a qur’an Dodger?

  202. And since you are never critical of islam, I can safely say you are pro muslim.

    Since I consider all organized religion relatively ridiculous, I would not call myself pro-Muslim. I would call myself pro-freedom-of-religion.

    To put matters in the most vulgar terms possible, I become concerned when one set of people who believe one set of fairy tales starts slamming on a group that believes another set of fairy tales.

  203. “I become concerned when one set of people who believe one set of fairy tales starts slamming on a group that believes another set of fairy tales.”

    But I am “slamming” actual events like honor killings, non muslims converting to islam to become terrorists, muslims using intimidation to curtail free speech and such. Is that wrong?

  204. RELIGIOUS tensions were raised in the centre of Wood Green at the weekend as Islamic activists set about trying to convince shoppers that “Jesus was a Muslim”.

    Police stepped in to calm the situation as bystanders were confronted with up to 70 activists aiming to give them a taste of a Britain under Shari’ah Islamic law.

    The activists, who have held similar “roadshows” in south, east and west London, set up outside fashion chain H&M in Wood Green High Road on Saturday afternoon, but tensions were soon strained.

    One onlooker said: “They unfurled this huge banner proclaiming that Jesus was a Muslim, which understandably raised some people’s heckles [sic].

    “These people were slagging off Britain and trying to convert people to Islam. They were quite confrontational.

    “The police moved in twice while I was there. They didn’t take people away but they stepped in to calm them down.”…

    The activists intended to show how Shari’ah law would combat “gang crime, poverty and promiscuity” in the borough….

    Inspector Eric Monk, of Haringey’s Community Engagement Team, said: “This is a diverse borough and I doubt that this activity will have any significant impact on the strong, positive inter-faith relationships that exist in Haringey.

  205. Anti-Semitic, anti-Christian hate literature on display at Chicago Islamic supremacist conference — much of it from the Qur’an

    And some of it is from the Qur’an. More on this story. “Anti-Semitic, Anti-Christian Propaganda on Display at Caliphate Conference,” from IPT News, July 24 (thanks to Sr. Soph):

    While Hizb ut-Tahrir, a pro-jihadist group which met openly near Chicago last weekend, is surprisingly candid about its desire to re-establish an Islamic Caliphate, literature available at its conference shows the group also views Christians and Jews as untrustworthy enemies of God.

    More than a dozen issues of a Hizb ut-Tahrir (HT) newsletter called The Shield were obtained from the conference by the Investigative Project on Terrorism. The publication repeatedly condemns interfaith “outreach initiatives” and shows HT believes in the death penalty for Muslims who leave the faith.

    http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/027014.php

    Of course Dodger and DOI wont touch this

  206. Why it matters that honor killing has Islamic sanction

    “While the practice is not confined to a specific cultural group and has no links to Islam, there is ‘no question,’ Mr. Oppal said, the numbers of honour killings are higher in certain communities.”

    No links to Islam? Really?

    Consider these:

    A manual of Islamic law certified by Al-Azhar as a reliable guide to Sunni orthodoxy says that “retaliation is obligatory against anyone who kills a human being purely intentionally and without right.” However, “not subject to retaliation” is “a father or mother (or their fathers or mothers) for killing their offspring, or offspring’s offspring.” (‘Umdat al-Salik o1.1-2).

    In other words, someone who kills his child incurs no legal penalty under Islamic law. In accord with this, in 2003 the Jordanian Parliament voted down on Islamic grounds a provision designed to stiffen penalties for honor killings. Al-Jazeera reported that “Islamists and conservatives said the laws violated religious traditions and would destroy families and values.”

    And related to the practice is this:

    “The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) used not to kill the children, so thou shouldst not kill them unless you could know what Khadir had known about the child he killed, or you could distinguish between a child who would grow up to he a believer (and a child who would grow up to be a non-believer), so that you killed the (prospective) non-believer and left the (prospective) believer aside.” — Sahih Muslim Book 019, Number 4457

    Khadir, or Khidr, figures in sura 18 of the Qur’an. He is traveling with Moses, and: “Then they proceeded: until, when they met a young man, he [Khadir] slew him. Moses said: “Hast thou slain an innocent person who had slain none? Truly a foul (unheard of) thing hast thou done!” Khadir replies: “As for the youth, his parents were people of Faith, and we feared that he would grieve them by obstinate rebellion and ingratitude (to Allah and man). So we desired that their Lord would give them in exchange (a son) better in purity (of conduct) and closer in affection….” (18:74, 18:80-81).

    http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/027016.php#respond

    Or this……Because its “anti-muslim” to bring this up. Right Dodger?

  207. As Muslim women suffer, feminists avert their gaze

    This has been going on for a long time. Feminists have long ignored the plight of Muslim women, while conservatives who supposedly don’t care about women have been the only champions of women’s rights in the Islamic world. See my articles on this: “Feminists Betray Muslim Women”; “The Conservative Vanguard of the Feminist Movement”; and “Two Women Stoned: Feminists Mum” (with David Horowitz and Janet Levy).

    “As Muslim women suffer, feminists avert their gaze,” by Robert Fulford in the National Post, July 25 (thanks to Sr. Soph):

    Lubna Ahmed al-Hussein, an angry Khartoum journalist who works for the UN in Sudan, has started a campaign against shariah law by elevating a local police matter into an international embarrassment: She’s invited the world to witness her judicial flogging, thus making her case part of the struggle between religious traditionalists and independent women–a struggle that now may encompass the quadruple murder that was revealed a world away, in Kingston, Ont., on Thursday.

    http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/027018.php#respond

    Why is this the case Dodger?

  208. Organization representing gay Christians and Muslims allows Bible to be publicly defaced, but not Qur’an

    Why not? What would they have to fear from the enlightened and tolerant adherents of the Religion of Peace? “Gallery’s invitation to deface the Bible brings obscene response,” by Mike Wade for The Times, July 23 (thanks to ZP):

    A publicly funded exhibition is encouraging people to deface the Bible in the name of art — and visitors have responded with abuse and obscenity.

    The show includes a video of a woman ripping pages from the Bible and stuffing them into her bra, knickers and mouth.

    The open Bible is a central part of Made in God’s Image, an exhibition at the Gallery of Modern Art (Goma) in Glasgow. By the book is a container of pens and a notice saying: “If you feel you have been excluded from the Bible, please write your way back into it.”

    The exhibit, Untitled 2009, was proposed by the Metropolitan Community Church, which said that the idea was to reclaim the Bible as a sacred text. But to the horror of many Christians, including the community church, visitors have daubed its pages with comments such as “This is all sexist pish, so disregard it all.” A contributor wrote on the first page of Genesis: “I am Bi, Female & Proud. I want no god who is disappointed in this.”

    The Church of Scotland expressed concern, the Roman Catholic Church called the exhibit infantile, and a Christian lawyers’ group said that the exhibition was symptomatic of a broken and lawless society.

    The exhibition has been created by the artists Anthony Schrag and David Malone, in association with organisations representing gay Christians and Muslims. Mr Schrag, the gallery’s artist in residence, said that he did not believe in God, but that his research for the £7,000 show had underlined his respect for people of faith….

    A spokesman for the Catholic Church said: “One wonders whether the organisers would have been quite as willing to have the Koran defaced.”…

    But of course they weren’t. They didn’t offer a Qur’an for defacing. And so their entire absurd exhibit demonstrates anew that Leftists don’t believe their own rhetoric about Christianity and Islam being equally likely to incite believers to violence.

    http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/027019.php#respond

    So why werent they willing to deface a quran Doger? Any idea? Am I being “anti-muslim” for asking that question?

  209. Since 2004 58 churches have been bombed in Iraq, world yawns

    If 58 mosques had been bombed in Iraq since 2004, every schoolchild in America and Europe would know about it, and be forced to attend mandatory seminars about “Islamophobia.” But this? You will only hear about this here.

    “Coptic Human Rights Organization Condems [sic] Church Bombings in Iraq,” from AINA, July 25:

    Cairo (AINA) — The Egyptian Union Organization for Human Rights, based in Cairo, Egypt, has sent a letter to the Arab League, the Middle East Council of Churches and the World Council of Churches condemning the latest church bombings in Iraq. Since 2004 58 churches have been bombed in Iraq.

    http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/027024.php#respond

    islamic “tolerance’ for ya

  210. UK: Muslim medical personnel refuse to use alcohol-based hand cleanser

    It would be refreshing if British authorities treated this as a public health issue rather than one of multiculturalism, but at this point one can expect nothing. “Muslims refuse to use alcohol-based hand gels over religious beliefs,” from the Daily Mail, July 25 (thanks to all who sent this in):

    Some Muslims have refused to use alcohol-based hand gels to combat the spread of swine flu because they claim it is against their religion.

    Some of those employed by St Albans Council in Hertfordshire have complained about the antibacterial lotion, which is considered a key strategy in containing the virus.

    Officials were concerned because the Koran bans Muslims from consuming alcohol, so council chiefs issued them with non-alcohol hand gels, which studies have shown to be less effective in killing bugs.

    But Muslim leaders criticised the council’s decision to change the gel, pointing out that Islamic teachings allow Muslims to use alcohol for medicinal purposes.

    The Muslim Council of Britain said: ‘We would advise people to follow the medical advice so we would, of course, encourage people to use hand gel. ‘People need to find ways to accommodate their beliefs.’…

    Thus those who refuse are simply once again trying to reinforce the proposition that Islamic norms and practices must always and everywhere triumph over Infidel ones. This is a declaration of supremacism, not piety.

    http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/027029.php#respond

    Is this anti muslims too Dodger? Seems Dodger is out of his league on this thread. :-)

  211. Terror shield law doesn’t apply to officers
    July 25, 2009 by creeping

    Litigation jihad continues. This ruling makes it imperative for people to speak up and report suspicious activities particularly if law enforcement officers become reluctant in doing so due to the threat of potential legal action even when they act in good faith.

    MINNEAPOLIS — A shield law for those who report suspected terrorist activities does not apply to law enforcement, a judge ruled Friday in a discrimination lawsuit filed by six imams who were removed from a US Airways flight in 2006.

    U.S. District Judge Ann Montgomery said it was apparently the first time a court has had to decide whether a 2007 law that provides legal immunity for individuals who report suspected terrorist activities in good faith specifically protects law enforcement officers.

    Congress passed the law in response to the imams’ lawsuit. The Islamic religious leaders were removed from the flight in Minneapolis in November 2006 after passengers reported what they considered suspicious behavior.

    The imams, who were handcuffed and questioned, sued the Tempe, Ariz.-based airline, several airport police officers and an FBI agent on several grounds, including discrimination and false arrest. Passengers who had complained about the imams’ behavior were dropped from the lawsuit after Congress passed the shield law.

    The FBI agent argued that he also was protected under that law because he believed he had taken “reasonable action in good faith” in response to the report of suspicious activity.

    But Montgomery concluded that Congress put nothing in the law to change the “traditional qualified immunity principles” that apply to law enforcement officers. And while airport police had disputed that the imams were ever arrested, Montgomery concluded they were.

    Read it all via AP. In other words, the flying imams can sue the police.

    http://creepingsharia.wordpress.com/2009/07/25/terror-shield-law-doesnt-apply-to-officers/

    Isnt that just great

  212. Children in Hamas summer camps reenacted the abduction of IDF soldier Gilad Schalit in the presence of top Hamas officials, according to pictures obtained by The Jerusalem Post.

    According to Israeli defense officials, more than 120,000 Palestinian children are spending the summer in Hamas-run camps. In addition to religious studies, the children undergo semi-military training with toy guns.

    At a recent summer camp graduation ceremony, the children put on a show reenacting the June 2006 abduction of Schalit.Present was Osama Mazini, a senior Hamas political leader, who is in charge of the Schalit negotiations with Israel on behalf of the terrorist group.

    In one picture, obtained by the Post, Mazini is seen standing next to Ahmad Bahar, the acting speaker of the Palestinian Legislative Council, distributing Korans to camp counselors.

    http://www.weaselzippers.net/blog/2009/07/gaza-children-in-hamas-summer-camps-reenacting-capture-of-gilad-schalit.html

    Make you feel proud that you back these people DOI?

  213. Muslim mob targets Christians for building church

    The classic dhimmi laws forbid Christians to build new churches or rebuild old ones, and even today, when those laws are not fully observed in the Islamic world, it is devilishly difficult for Christians to get permits to build new houses of worship and to repair old ones — even in secular Turkey and the “Arab Republic” of Egypt. This story comes to us from Egypt.

    “Islamic Tolerance Alert: Muslim mob targets Christians for building church: Mosque blamed for igniting Islamic crowds to torch property,” by Aaron Klein for World Net Daily, July 26

    http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/027036.php#respond

    Muslims “slip” once again

  214. Islamist militants have staged three co-ordinated attacks in northern Nigeria leaving dozens dead, meaning about 150 have been killed in two days.

    A BBC reporter has counted 100 bodies, mostly of militants, near the police headquarters in Maiduguri, Borno State, where hundreds are fleeing their homes.

    Witnesses told the BBC a gun battle raged for hours in Potiskum, Yobe State and a police station was set on fire.

    Some of the militants follow a preacher who campaigns against Western schools.

    There has also been an attack in Wudil, some 20km (12 miles) from Kano, the largest city in northern Nigeria.

    The security forces have confirmed Monday’s attacks but have not released any casualty figures.

    Rest here>>>

    http://www.weaselzippers.net/blog/2009/07/nigerian-taliban-launch-second-day-of-attacks-on-security-forces-150-killed-.html

    Another country with an islamic problem.

  215. Liberal-Islamist Alliance

    Amil Imani – 7/27/2009

    Presently, fanatical Islamists are lashing out with mad fury before their own final demise. The “infidel” world has been complicit in the surge of Islamism through its mistakes, complacency, and greed.

    Our academia leftists even engage in willful misinformation and deception when it suits them. Terms such as “Political Islam,” or “Radical Islam,” for instance, are contributions of our leftist intellengtsia. These terms do not even exist in the native parlance of Islam itself, simply because they are redundant. Even a cursory study of Islam and its charter—the Quran—will clearly reveal that it is a radical political movement. It is the socialist leftists and paid-for-media and politicians who sanitize Islam and misguide the populace by saying that the “real Islam” constitutes the main body of the religion; and, that this main body is non-political and moderate.

    Our liberal professors claim that Islam is inherently good, the majority of Muslims are good and only a small minority has hijacked the good faith of Muhammad by engaging in acts of intolerance, hatred and violence. I agree, it is not uncommon to observe Muslims, anywhere in the world, who are indeed exemplary in many ways. They are kind, generous and much more. But these are the Cultural Muslims who are, in effect, only part Muslim.

    http://globalpolitician.com/25770-liberal-leftist-islamist

    You part of that unholy alliance Dodger?

  216. Amsterdam Gay Pride organiser queer bashed
    One of the organisers of Amsterdam’s Gay Pride, Hugo Braakhuis, and a friend were assaulted in the capital on Wednesday night.
    Related Articles

    Amsterdam – De Telegraaf newspaper says the two men were kissing goodnight outside a bar when a group of youths started shouting abuse at them.

    Braakhuis’ friend spoke to them about their behaviour and one of the youths hit him.

    When he fell to the ground, others in the group started kicking him.

    Braakhuis was also beaten.

    The police arrived quickly and arrested four of the youths.

    The paper says the authorities in the capital are treating the matter seriously and are appealing for witnesses.

    Amsterdam’s Gay Pride canal boat parade is taking place next Saturday.

    Braakhuis has told De Telegraaf: “That will have to be a party, but gay emancipation here still has quite a way to go.”

    http://www.expatica.com/nl/news/local_news/Amsterdam-Gay-Pride-organiser-queer-bashed_54862.html

    The mysterious “youths” strike again.

  217. Raleigh, N.C. — Officials arrested seven North Carolina residents Monday on charges they supported terrorism by recruiting people to fight overseas.

    Daniel Patrick Boyd, 39, Hysen Sherifi, 24, Anes Subasic, 33, Zakariya Boyd, 20, Dylan Boyd, 22, Mohammad Omar Aly Hassan, 22, and Ziyad Yaghi, 21, have been charged with conspiring to provide material support to terrorists and conspiring to murder, kidnap and injure persons abroad, the Justice Department announced Monday.

    According to indictments unsealed Monday, Daniel Boyd, also known as “Saifullah,” and the other defendants conspired to provide resources to terrorists from roughly November 2006 through at least July 2009. During July 2007, Daniel Boyd also traveled to Israel with several of the defendants, hoping to engage in “violent jihad” that included “supporting and participating in terrorist activities abroad and committing acts of murder, kidnapping or maiming persons,” according to the indictment. They failed in their efforts, and the men returned home, the indictment stated.

    Daniel Boyd was also accused of soliciting money last year to fund others’ travel overseas to take part in “violent jihad,” according to the indictment.

    “The indictment alleges that Daniel Boyd is a veteran of terrorist training camps in Pakistan and Afghanistan who, over the past three years, has conspired with others in this country to recruit and help young men travel overseas in order to kill,” David Kris, assistant attorney general for the National Security Division of the U.S. Department of Justice, said in a statement.

    http://www.weaselzippers.net/blog/2009/07/seven-radical-catholics-arrested-plotting-new-crusade-in-raleighno-wait.html#comments

    Gee what were the odds they were muslims?

  218. Hizb ut Tahrir planning continues around the world (video)
    July 26, 2009 by creeping

    Hizb ut Tahrir (HuT) not only held a meeting in Chicago calling for a global caliphate stating Muslims should “spread Islam or die trying” – they have also held rallies around the world:

    Check out their growth plans for sharia law around the world in the video below.

    In Bangladesh:

    The imperialist powers have failed to suppress the call for the Khilafah; so will their agents

    The leaflet also mentioned that democracy is a kufr system which the colonialists deliver to the Ummah through missiles and bombs as did Bush Jr or through the cunning of Obama using empty words of ‘mending relations.’

    A Muslim does not have sovereignty nor does he legislate according to his whims and desires. If the whole of the Muslims decided to legalize what Allah (swt) forbade such as riba or monopolies, or homosexuality, their consensus would be of no value. In Islam sovereignty belongs to the Shari’ah revealed by Allah (swt) which does not give any consideration to the views of the majority.

    The global leadership of Hizb ut-Tahrir headed by the Amir of the party (Sheikh Ata ibn Khalil Abu Rashta) have the correct drive, the enlightened thinking, proper vision and the sound strategy to lead the Khilafah state and guide the Muslim Ummah towards unity, strength and glory. So rush forward to join the Ummah in the work for re-establishing the Khilafah by providing your support in removing the current rulers and rescue the Ummah from the tyrants and the disbelieving-polytheist enemies.”

    These meetings and rallies are taking place all over the world – Tanzania, India, Pakistan, Ukraine, Mauritius, Indonesia, etc.

    HuT is illegal in some countries and Turkey arrested 200 members of HuT recently.

    http://creepingsharia.wordpress.com/2009/07/26/hizb-ut-tahrir-planning-continues-around-world/

    I bet Thuggy loves this group

  219. KANO, Nigeria (AFP)–Radical Islamists torched a police headquarters, a church and a customs office, residents said Monday, as police put the death toll in weekend religious clashes in northern Nigeria at 65.

    “Five policemen have been killed, one police station burnt and 60 Talibans killed,” police Inspector-General Ogbonna Onovo told reporters, referring to an Islamist sect styled on Afghanistan’s Taliban.

    One of the residents, Shafiu Mohammed, said a group belonging to a religious sect known as the Nigerian “Talibans” stormed the town around midnight and went on a rampage. He said the heavily armed militants set ablaze a customs office and slit the throat of an engineer working there.

    http://www.weaselzippers.net/blog/2009/07/nigerian-taliban-torch-church.html#comments

    Geee why would muslims burn a church? Any idea Dodger?

  220. Hamas’ New “Culture War” By: Alan M. Dershowitz
    FrontPageMagazine.com | Monday, July 27, 2009

    Hamas, the terrorist organization that specializes in targeting civilians, has now decided, according to a New York Times headline, to shift “from rockets to culture war” in an effort to garner public support for its cause. Part of its ongoing public relations campaign is to portray the Israelis as the “new Nazis” and the Palestinians as the “new Jews.” In order to bring about this transformation, it must engage in a form of Holocaust denial that erases the historical record of widespread Palestinian complicity with the “old Nazis” in perpetrating the real Holocaust. It has become an important part of the mantra of Hamas supporters that neither the Palestinians people nor its leadership played any role in the Holocaust. Listen to Mohammad Ahmadinejad talking to students at Columbia University:

    If [the Holocaust] is a reality, we need to still question whether the Palestinian people should be paying for it or not. After all, it happened in Europe. The Palestinian people had no role to play in it. So why is it that the Palestinian people are paying the price of an event they had nothing to do with?…The Palestinian people didn’t commit any crime. They had no role to play in World War II. They were living with the Jewish communities and the Christian communities in peace at the time.

    http://www.frontpagemag.com/readArticle.aspx?ARTID=35708

    Abd ppl like DOI eat it up

  221. Fitzgerald: The worldwide Jihad is simply the sum of all the local Jihads

    The worldwide Jihad is simply the sum of all the local Jihads. Each local Jihad receives automatic support from Muslims worldwide, who are quick to identify, always and everywhere, with other Muslims. For a century and a half the pursuit of Jihad was largely abandoned, not because the doctrine of Jihad had been changed, or had fallen into permanent desuetude, but because Muslims were too weak, vis-a-vis others, and they were fully aware of that weakness. 



    After World War II, the main objects of Jihad were the State of Israel and Kashmir. The former, in particular, received so much attention because, as Bernard Lewis so dryly put it, expressing what we all know to be true, disputes involving Jews were certain to attract attention, not least from antisemites (who found a new, more politically and socially acceptable outlet for their antisemitism, now that Mr. Hitler had temporarily dampened the open delight one could take in it). Others who were feeling, often unaware, an intolerable civilisational guilt, found it quite a relief, eventually, to accept the Arab narrative about those terrible Israelis and thus to have the psychic consolation, in the most extreme form of this mental illness, of allowing themselves to believe that it was Jews who were now behaving like Nazis. This was utter nonsense, but what a boost, not least in Germany and other parts of Europe. The cult of “Palestinianism” could be tied in — quite wrongly — with a hypertrophied sense of embarrassment about anything that might, however implausibly, be linked to European “colonialism.”

    Continue reading “Fitzgerald: The worldwide Jihad is simply the sum of all the local Jihads”

    http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/027053.php#respond

  222. Spain: Police arrest three in mosque, angry Muslims protest outside police station

    They say that “the sanctuary of a mosque should be respected in the same way as that of Christian churches and Jewish synagogues.” But would police really not enter a church or synagogue in order to make an arrest? I doubt that.

    “Police enter Palma mosque,” from EuroWeekly, July 24 (thanks to Tea and Politics):

    PALMA – THREE arrests were made at Palma’s main mosque in Calle Joan Mestre after police followed a North African suspect into the building. He was arrested together with the president of the Moslem Defence League and the mosque caretaker, both of whom had reportedly tried to prevent the police from entering the premises, saying that the sanctuary of a mosque should be respected in the same way as that of Christian churches and Jewish synagogues.

    The Moslems claimed that the police had become violent and had used force in making the arrests. However, the police have a very different story to relate. They state they were following a man who had failed to stop when being flagged down on his motorcycle for a roadside check, and that he had taken refuge in the mosque.

    On hearing of the incident, some 150 angry local Moslems protested outside the police station, saying that relations between the Islamic community and the security forces were now at an all-time low due to their holy site not being respected.
    An internal enquiry is to be launched to establish exactly what happened during the incident.

    http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/027061.php#respond

    Angry muslims? Wow, thats new.

  223. Australia: Misunderstander of Islam admits to plotting to murder thousands

    Yet another convert to Islam misunderstands his new, peaceful faith. When will Honest Ibe Hooper and Brave Ahmed Rehab of CAIR and their Australian counterparts take the hint and institute programs for converts to teach them the true, peaceful Islam? And if they don’t have any interest in doing that, why not?

    “Australian admits plotting to kill thousands,” from AFP, July 28 (thanks to Mathew):

    MELBOURNE — An Australian convert to Islam on Tuesday admitted being part of a terror cell that plotted to kill thousands of people by bombing major sports events, just moments before his retrial.

    Shane Kent, 33, pleaded guilty to being a member of a group led by radical Islamic cleric Abdul Nacer Benbrika, who told his followers they could kill women and children in the pursuit of holy war.

    Kent also admitted involvement in the cell’s plans for a bomb attack on sports events including the Australian Football League’s (AFL) 2005 Grand Final, which attracted some 92,000 fans and a TV audience of millions.

    The former forklift truck driver was about to face a retrial on the charges, which he previously denied, after a Supreme Court jury last September failed to reach a verdict….

    The men referred to themselves as mujahedeen, or holy warriors, and considered violent jihad an integral part of their religious obligations, judge Bernard Bongiorno said when sentencing Benbrika and the other men in February.

    Benbrika was so committed to violent jihad, Bongiorno said, that he had talked about continuing the group’s activities behind bars if its members were jailed….

    Material seized from the group included bomb-making instructions and video tapes with messages from Al-Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden.

    While the cell had not made advanced plans for a specific target or carried out an attack, Bongiorno said they had shown no remorse, and did not appear to have renounced their beliefs.

    Kent was charged with intentionally being a member of a terrorist organisation and to making a document connected with the preparation of a terrorist act.

    According to evidence at his first trial, Kent, who converted to Islam at 19, undertook two months of paramilitary training in the use of firearms and explosives in an undisclosed country.

    His lawyers told the court Tuesday he was receiving psychiatric treatment for acute depression and anxiety. He will face a sentencing hearing on August 17.

    http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/027059.php#respond

    Whats up with all these converts to islam wanting to kill? Any idea Dodger, DOI? You guys are the experts on defending islam. Can you explain the phenomena to this “racist” “xenophobe”?

  224. Muslim groups mum on Hindu request that they declare India off-limits for jihad

    This should have been easy: a Hindu group asked 13 Muslim organizations to declare India a “friend” of Islam and thus off-limits for jihad. One would think that these official representatives of the vaunted Religion of Peace would have welcomed this opportunity to repudiate the jihadists who are supposedly twisting the peaceful teachings of Islam and hijacking the faith, and to affirm their acceptance of the proposition that Muslims and non-Muslims must live together as equals in a society that does not establish either religion.

    But that was five months ago, and so far, according to Jihad Watch reader Varunappa, the Muslim groups have said…nothing at all.

    Now, why is that?

    (If any of them have issued a statement and I have missed it, please send it to me at director@jihadwatch.org and I will post it forthwith.)

    Here is a story about the initial request, “Issue fatwa declaring India friend of Islam: VHP,” from the Times of India, February 23, 2009:

    NEW DELHI: It may be a poll-related gimmick but it’s a clever one. The Vishwa Hindu Parishad has sent a letter to 13 prominent Muslim organisations in India with a curious request — that they declare, in a fatwa, India to be a “friend” of Islam, or a Dar-ul-Aman, therefore making jihad against India and Indians invalid.

    http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/027062.php#respond

    Why are they silent Dodger? Maybe we should ask CAIR to do the same.

  225. Muslim groups mum on Hindu request that they declare India off-limits for jihad

    This should have been easy: a Hindu group asked 13 Muslim organizations to declare India a “friend” of Islam and thus off-limits for jihad. One would think that these official representatives of the vaunted Religion of Peace would have welcomed this opportunity to repudiate the jihadists who are supposedly twisting the peaceful teachings of Islam and hijacking the faith, and to affirm their acceptance of the proposition that Muslims and non-Muslims must live together as equals in a society that does not establish either religion.

    But that was five months ago, and so far, according to Jihad Watch reader Varunappa, the Muslim groups have said…nothing at all.

    Now, why is that?

    (If any of them have issued a statement and I have missed it, please send it to me at director@jihadwatch.org and I will post it forthwith.)

    Here is a story about the initial request, “Issue fatwa declaring India friend of Islam: VHP,” from the Times of India, February 23, 2009:

    NEW DELHI: It may be a poll-related gimmick but it’s a clever one. The Vishwa Hindu Parishad has sent a letter to 13 prominent Muslim organisations in India with a curious request — that they declare, in a fatwa, India to be a “friend” of Islam, or a Dar-ul-Aman, therefore making jihad against India and Indians invalid.

    The Dharm Raksha Manch, a congregation of Hindu leaders, also asked the Muslim leadership to declare that Hindus were not “kafirs” and therefore should not be targets of jihad. The letter has been sent to the All India Milli Council, Dar-ul-Uloom Deoband, Tablighi Jamaat, Jamiat Ulema-e-Hind and All India Organisation of Imams of Mosques among others.

    The letter asks the ulema to “issue a fatwa declaring that India was not Dar-ul-Harb”, i.e. a country against which Muslims must launch a religious war, rather “India was Dar-ul-Aman, a land of peace where all Muslims can practise and propagate their religion uninterrupted”.

    Many Islamic fundamentalist writers have declared that India ceased to be a Dar-ul-Islam after the British left and Pakistan was carved out. The VHP is cleverly not asking the ulema to declare India to be Dar-ul-Islam, but a third variety, Dar-ul-Aman or land of peace. The VHP’s new tack, many say, is intimately tied to the elections and is probably an attempt to cash in on the prevailing anger in the wake of the Mumbai attacks.

    Certainly, the Laskhar-e-Taiba, in its writing and speeches by Hafiz Mohammed Saeed, has declared on numerous occasions that its goal was to reclaim the Islamic lands of India — apart from Kashmir, this would include Hyderabad, Junagadh etc. This was the inspiration behind the name Deccan Mujahideen, a front for LeT. India, according to many Islamist leaders, is a legitimate jihadi target.

    In their vitriolic emails, the Indian Mujahideen, which claimed responsibility for the Delhi and Ahmedabad blasts, had also used the reference of scriptures to justify attacks against Indians.

    Ashok Singhal, head of the VHP, said the letter had asked Muslim scholars to clear misconceptions. “The Dharm Raksha Manch is particularly concerned that Islamic scriptures have served as the inspiration behind these attacks, and concerned that the same might occur again in the future,” he said.

    A perfectly reasonable concern.

    “We are expecting the said organisations to respond to this appeal in a positive manner. We firmly believe that till the time Islamic leaders do not condemn religion inspired violence, terrorism in this country will not come to an end,” Singhal said. “If Islam is a religion of peace, as they propagate, then we expect them to issue a fatwa clearing these views,” he added.

    If it were, that would have been a reasonable expectation.

    Why are they silent Dodger? Maybe we should ask CAIR to do the same.

  226. Muslim converts to Christianity targeted in Somalia

    Islamic Tolerance Alert: “Muslim Converts to Christianity Targeted in Somalia,” by Lee Jay Walker for the Seoul Times via AINA, July 28:

    In some parts of the world it can be very dangerous to convert from Islam to Christianity, or any other faith. Sometimes Christians are killed by radical Muslims or sometimes by the state which sanctions death or prison. Somalia, like some other Muslim majority nations, clearly does not believe in religious freedom and the small Christian population faces an uphill struggle to survive. Therefore, it is essential to remember these martyrs because organizations like Al Qaeda would like to spread this tyranny to every nation. So why is it so dangerous to convert to Buddhism, Christianity, Hinduism, or any other religion, from Islam?…

    Yet when we focus on Afghanistan, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Somalia, and other Muslim majority nations it is clear that religious freedom is denied because of Islam itself. These restrictions are multiple, and this applies to either radical Islamic organizations or because of state sanctioned Islamic Sharia Law.

    For example in modern day Saudi Arabia the Islamic establishment will not allow one non-Muslim place of worship. Also, conversion from Islam is punishable by death and you are not openly allowed to read about Buddhism, Hinduism, Christianity, or any other non-Muslim faith in Saudi Arabia. These laws and restrictions in Saudi Arabia are based on the Koran, the Hadiths, and Islamic Sharia Law.

    Even in more moderate nations like Egypt we see state sanctioned discrimination because the Coptic Christian community is treated unequally. This applies to the very basics of human life. For example a Coptic Christian male will suffer persecution if he wants to marry a Muslim female and in child custody cases involving a Muslim male or Christian female, the child or children will be given to the Muslim male. The reasons for this are simple, it is because Christians are deemed to be inferior to Muslims and this issue threatens all non-Muslims in Sharia Islamic based nations.

    Turning back to Somalia it is now “open season” to kill Christian converts from Islam because radical Sunni Islam is on the march. Last year, for example, Sunni Muslim fanatics beheaded Mansuur Mohammed who was a Christian convert. He was beheaded in the most cruel and barbaric way and at the same time Muslims were celebrating by saying Allah Akbar (God is great).

    You see, for rational people or people of compassion this act was barbaric and a crime against humanity. However, for the Muslims who did this they are following the Koran and the Hadiths and to these Islamic fanatics it is they who are following Islam to the full.

    Therefore, Mansuur Mohammed had done nothing wrong in accordance to Buddhism, Christianity, Hinduism, Sikhism, or any other religion. Yet in accordance with Islam, Mansuur Mohammed was an apostate and despite him caring for humanity, this meant nothing. Given this, Sunni Islamic fanatics held him down and beheaded him while they were praying to Allah.

    The last moments of Mansuur Mohammed were full of pain and just like the followers of Osama Bin Laden, the brutal killers video taped this murder, just like so many people who have been killed by fanatics in Iraq. Therefore, just like the complete annihilation of Buddhism in Afghanistan in past history, these Islamic jihadists desire the same outcome.

    Sahih Bukhari recorded the sayings of Mohammed and the Hadiths are very important to Muslims. In volume 4, Book 52, Number 260: Ali burnt some people and this news reached Ibn Abbas, who said, “Had I been in his place I would not have burnt them, as the Prophet said, ‘Don’t punish (anybody) with Allah’s Punishment.’ No doubt, I would have killed them, for the Prophet said, ‘IF SOMEBODY (a Muslim) DISCARDS HIS RELIGION, KILL HIM,'”

    Therefore, in the eyes of many Muslims, not all, it is moral and right to kill converts from Islam and in nations like Saudi Arabia this is enshrined fully within the codified law of Islamic Sharia Law. Even moderate branches of Islam face persecution, for example the Alevi’s in Turkey and the Ahmadiyya in Pakistan are also victimized by conservative Islam….

    .

    Gee more islamic “tolerance”

  227. CAIR Praises FBI for Arresting North Carolina Jihadists…Just Kidding, They Slam the FBI for “Playing Cruel Trick” on Family….

    The FBI did nothing wrong, if they feel like there could be a violent confrontation during the arrest then it’s procedure to try and get the suspects away from any weapons…..

    WASHINGTON, July 29 /PRNewswire/ — A prominent national Muslim civil rights and advocacy organization today questioned the constitutionality of what it termed a “cruel trick” played by the FBI on the family of a terrorism suspect arrested earlier this week in North Carolina.

    Family members told the Washington-based Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR) that the FBI allegedly sent an informant in the case to the family’s home falsely claiming that the father and three sons had been injured in a car accident and then had a fake “doctor” arrest the wife at the hospital.

    As reported by the Raleigh News & Observer:

    “[The wife of the suspect] described a harrowing experience Monday afternoon when she answered the door to find a man she thought was a family friend wearing a shirt that appeared to be bloodied. He told her that Daniel and their three sons, Dylan, Noah and Zakariya, were in a serious car crash. He asked her to get into a Highway Patrol cruiser that would take her to Duke Hospital, where they were being treated.

    “Boyd summoned her daughter and pregnant daughter-in-law.They wrapped their heads in scarves, grabbed their Qurans and flew out the door.For [the wife], it was a particularly painful experience. Her 16-year-old son, Luqman, died in a car crash near their home in 2007.

    “When they arrived at Duke Hospital, the cruiser took them to a construction site at the rear of the facility. A man dressed as a doctor came out and asked whether she was the wife. When she said yes, he extended his hand. She told him she does not shake men’s hands. He then grabbed her wrist and handcuffed her. ‘I’m not a doctor. I’m an agent and your family is not in the hospital,’ he told her. ‘You’re being detained, and you need to cooperate with us.’

    http://www.weaselzippers.net/blog/2009/07/cair-praises-fbi-for-arresting-north-carolina-jihadistsjust-kidding-they-slam-the-fbi-for-playing-cr.html#comments

    And DOI wonders why I view this group as 5th collumnists.

  228. Phares: North Carolina: Meet Taqiyya Jihad

    MrsBoyd.jpg
    Mrs. Boyd

    Dr. Walid Phares is the director of the Future Terrorism Project at the Foundation for the Defense of Democracies and the author of The Confrontation: Winning the War against Future Jihad. His Web site is here, and here is an interview he gave to Dina Gusovsky of Russia Today TV, where he establishes a comparison between this cell and the Jihadists attacks in Europe, Russia, India and Indonesia.

    With shock and malaise, Americans are discovering that their country is penetrated by jihadi terrorists, particularly those we call “homegrown.” Over the past few months, several alarming cases have been revealed by law enforcement. Not only the frequency of these revelations but also the type of jihadi cells are teaching the public that something very troubling is happening within the homeland: the surge of a threat deserving a greater attention than the current attitude dispensed by the administration.

    The arrest of Daniel Patrick Boyd, a married 39-year-old, his two sons, and four other “jihadis” in a rural area south of Raleigh, N.C., is not a little matter in our global analysis of the movement within the United States. “Saifullah,” the jihadi name of Boyd; his two sons, Zakariya, 20, and Dylan, 22; Mohammed Omar Aly Hassan, 22; and Ziad Yaghi, 21, are all U.S. citizens. Hysen Sherifi, 24, a Kosovo national, is a legal resident.

    According to government documents (we only read the published ones), this was a group based in the U.S. training and readying to perform “jihad” overseas, like a Virginia predecessor group arrested some eight years ago and charged with using paintball training camps to “strike at targets in the sub Indian continent.” Based on this data alone the North Carolina cell is a combatant group committed to “terror war.” By reviewing this data however and comparing it with the multiple cells dismantled over several years, particularly over the past few months, the matter is more serious.

    Furthermore, even though the courts will struggle with defense attorneys’ expected tactics to portray the jihadists as enamored with a “foreign cause,” many in the counterterrorism community would not buy this version. All the hallmarks indicate (based on the published information) that the case is more ominous than thought to be by average citizens. The legal proceedings will take their course and justice will be served in court, but the bigger picture, the troubling questions related to this country’s national security must be addressed seriously and fast, as we read into this case.

    Age analysis

    “Saifullah” Boyd (the sword of Allah in Arabic) is 39. He is said to have served with Hezb-e-Islami in Afghanistan and Pakistan between 1989 and 1992. This means that this American citizen switched to jihadi ideology and committed to military action at least 12 years before 9/11. It also means that he was still fighting with the jihadists three years after the withdrawal of the Soviets from Afghanistan in February, 1989. Who was he fighting against and for what goal?

    The answer is that he has joined the “international cause” of jihadism that is to perform strikes wherever the “cause” will take him against the kuffars infidels, including on his native soil. He was 19 when he was “recruited” to war activities. At the time of arrest, the members of the cell were 20, 21, 22, 22, and 24. On 9/11, these jihadists were between the age of 10 and 13. Who over the decade indoctrinated them, recruited them, and trained them? Even more daring is to ask who is indoctrinating children age 10 and above to jihadism within the United States. It would be hard to believe that Boyd was the only jihadi instructor in the country.

    Stealth analysis

    “Saifullah” of North Carolina spent his 20s and 30s (or so we know) in his rural home. His neighbors saw him walking the dog and never heard him threatening anyone, per the media reports. By popular American standards he would be a regular guy. But by jihadi doctrine he was performing taqiyya. Combatants “in the path of Allah,” as instructed by ideologues to “fake” normalcy, and lie if needed, about their real beliefs so that the deception of the enemy is full.

    The question is how many other American “Saifullahs” are practicing taqiyya and since when? Are the urban jihadists in numbers greater than what we think or our defense and national security institutions thinks? How many U.S.-born terror combatants have been able to perform perfect taqiyya for 10 or 20 years until today? Does our government know what this doctrine is all about and, more importantly, are authorities educating the body of our defense apparatus regarding this stealthy threat dormant among us?

    Steps to be taken

    In view of this benchmark discovery in the aftermath of a series of jihadi arrests performed by law enforcement this year, all indicating that a “jihadi system” is expanding inside the country I strongly recommend the following steps:

    That the Department of Homeland Security quickly issues an assessment of this growing urban jihadi web and forms a task force to study the depth of the penetration on a national scale.

    That the president speaks on the issue of the arrest as a national security breach and warns the public from possible other urban cells growing and operating in America. President Barack Obama must not ignore what is becoming a direct national security threat to the American people.

    Congress must reconvene a bipartisan national security commission, similar to the 9/11 Commission, to propose appropriate measures and laws to combat this lethal indoctrination of adults and children, most of whom are American citizens.

    This North Carolina taqiya cell, and the last few cases of arrests this year, raises a real red flag. We are now meeting the “army of jihad” here at home, and it is growing. It must be addressed before it will be too late.

    http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/027078.php#respond

    It will only get worse

  229. Jihadist behind Jakarta bombing was targeting UK soccer team: “These players are Christians, so Muslims should not honor and respect these enemies of Allah”

    Wait a minute! Doesn’t Islam respect the “People of the Book”? Perhaps Honest Ibe Hooper or Brave Ahmed Rehab of CAIR could place a call to Noordin Mohammed Top to explain to him how he is Misunderstanding Islam. Can’t they? “Terrorist blames Jakarta blasts on soccer,” from UPI, July 30 (thanks to Block Ness):

    JAKARTA, July 30 (UPI) — Britain’s Manchester United soccer team was the target of a bomb attack on two Jakarta hotels two weeks ago, a prominent Indonesian terrorist suspect claims.

    An Internet message allegedly from Noordin Mohammed Top claimed responsibility for the bombing at the Ritz Carlton and Marriott hotels that killed seven people because the Ritz was about to host Manchester United ahead of an exhibition match.

    “These players are Christians, so Muslims should not honor and respect these enemies of Allah,” said the message, posted on the Web site blogspot.com, The Times of London reported….

    http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/027075.php#respond

    Islamic “tolerance” for you

  230. Armed mob sets fire to 20 houses, casualties feared

    Daily Times Monitor

    LAHORE: A mob of armed men attacked a village, Chak 95 GB, near Koriyan, Gojra tehsil in Toba Tek Singh district on Thursday and set fire to at least 20 houses, a private TV channel reported.

    According to the channel, several people were injured and casualties were also feared. The channel reported that many cattle had also been burnt alive in the incident. The incident sparked widespread violent protests against police and fire brigade officials for their late arrival. Protesters blocked the Faisalabad-Jhang Road, which affected the flow of traffic.

    Punjab Chief Minister Shahbaz Sharif took notice of the incident and directed the district coordination officer and the district police officer to visit the area personally and report back to him.

    Talking to the channel, Punjab Law Minister Rana Sanaullah said the incident took place as a reaction to rumours of blasphemy and alleged desecration of the holy Quran.

    Additional police force has been dispatched from Faisalabad to help control the situation.

    http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=20097\31\story_31-7-2009_pg7_4

    Well that’s understandable. Burn down a village over a rumor that some unholy book was “desecrated”. islamic “logic” for you

  231. DOJ gives Maine police training to learn Muslim culture
    July 30, 2009 by creeping

    By David Hench
    Portland Press Herald

    PORTLAND, Maine — Police officers planning to interview members of a Muslim household approached the door, only to spot a woman inside dashing into a back room. Was she grabbing a weapon? Warning a suspect? Fleeing out a back door?

    ”She did not want to answer the door without getting her head covering,” said Foria Younis, a former terrorism investigator with the FBI. In many Muslim cultures, ”if a woman doesn’t have a head scarf on, it’s almost as if she’s nude.”

    [Right. See pictures of Queen Noor of Jordan and Syrian first lady "as if" they are nude here]

    Younis tells the true story to help illustrate the importance of understanding Muslim traditions if police are to work effectively within their local Muslim communities.

    Younis was the key presenter Tuesday at a daylong training program at the University of Southern Maine, attended by 62 officers from across the state.

    Organized by the Cumberland County Sheriff’s Office, the training was provided by the U.S. Department of Justice in hopes of helping local and state authorities build ties with people in Muslim communities. It’s also meant to give officers the tools to conduct investigations in those populations.

    ”People want to know how to do it right rather than being told they did it wrong,” said Sheriff Mark Dion, who has worked in recent years to develop relationships with members of the local Muslim community. ”You don’t have to become an Islamist expert, but all we have now are stereotypes, which don’t work for anyone.”

    The Muslim populations in Maine include the growing Somali community, primarily in Lewiston and Portland, as well as immigrants from southern Asia. Although many Sudanese are Muslim, most of those who have come to Portland are Christian refugees from southern Sudan.

    [No training on how to coddle Sudanese Christian immigrants?]

    Tuesday’s training was attended by police from many cities, including Portland, Saco, Lewiston and Brunswick. The Maine State Police, the Department of Corrections, the Bureau of Motor Vehicles and other state agencies were represented as well.

    Younis conceded that she can give officers only a glimpse into understanding the complexity of Muslim culture, but said she hopes to encourage them to do more research. [Dawah?]

    South Portland Officer Allen Andrews said he’s doing just that.

    ”I’m the high school resource officer, and we have an increasing number of people from the Muslim community, and I’m just so ignorant about the traditions,” he said. ”As we become more diverse, I need to have a better idea of what’s going on so I don’t alienate people.”

    Unfortunately, Andrews is probably not learning about the supremacist sharia laws and Islamic jihad, or that Somali Muslims in the United States are going back to Somalia to wage jihad in efforts to implement Islamic sharia law. And so it creeps here in the States

    http://creepingsharia.wordpress.com/2009/07/30/doj-gives-maine-police-training-to-learn-muslim-culture/

    I guess its also to much to ask them to adapt to OUR culture

  232. 450 child brides in Gaza

    Carl In Jerusalem notes: “There is no way that any of these little girls – half the heights of their husbands – is more than 10 years old.” Indeed.

    Now where did Hamas get the idea that prepubescent girls were of marriageable age? Could it be from Muhammad, the prophet of Islam, the “excellent example” of conduct (cf. Qur’an 33:21)? “The Prophet wrote the (marriage contract) with ‘Aisha while she was six years old and consummated his marriage with her while she was nine years old and she remained with him for nine years (i.e. till his death).” (Bukhari 7.62.88)

    And if Muhammad is exemplary in the matter of child marriage, is he not exemplary in his battles and exhortations to warfare against Infidels? Why, of course he is.

    “Hamas sponsors mass wedding in Gaza,” from AFP, July 30 (thanks to Carl In Jerusalem):

    SHEIKH ZAYED CITY, Gaza Strip — Nearly a thousand Palestinians celebrated marriage on Thursday night in a ceremony organised by Hamas in the north of the Gaza Strip.

    Hamas dignitaries including Mahmud Zahar, one of the militant group’s top leaders, were on hand to congratulate 450 grooms who took part in the carefully stage-managed event.

    “We are saying to the world and to America that you cannot deny us joy and happiness,” Zahar told the men, all of whom were dressed in identical black suits and hailed from the nearby Jabalia refugee camp.

    Each groom received a present of 500 dollars from Hamas, which said its workers had also contributed five percent of their monthly salaries to add to the wedding gift.

    The 450 brides shared none of the glamour, taking seats among the audience of around 1,000 party guests: most couples had already taken part in religious ceremonies elsewhere, with more marriages planned for the next few days.

    “We are presenting this wedding as a gift to our people who stood firm in the face of the siege and the war,” local Hamas strongman Ibrahim Salaf said in a speech….

    http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/027082.php#respond

    Look! 450 muslims marrying little girls! Of course DOI will white wash it if he even comments. :-)

  233. How Pakistan’s blasphemy law is used to persecute non-Muslims

    A useful history. “Is there an end?,” from Dawn, August 6 (thanks to Varunappa):

    Pakistan’s anti-blasphemy law, enacted by President General Zia-ul-Haq in1986 and later amended by the parliament in 2004, is one of the most stringent laws. The penalty includes a mandatory death sentence for defaming Prophet Mohammad and life imprisonment for desecrating the Holy Quran. According to official reports, to date, over 500 people have been charged for breaching the Blasphemy Law. Dawn.com traces the history of some of these cases that have been highlighted in the media since 1990.

    2009 – August 05: An angry mob attacked the house of an elderly woman in District Sanghar, Sindh, accusing her of desecrating the Holy Quran. A case has not yet been registered but the District Bar Association assured the mob that if the woman – identified as Akhtari Malkani – is found guilty, she will be charged under the Blasphemy Law.

    2009 – August 01: Seven people were burnt alive and 18 others injured in Gojra, District Toba Tek Singh in Punjab after fresh violence erupted in the town over the alleged desecration of the Holy Quran three days ago. More than 50 houses were set on fire.

    2009 – July 31: A mob burnt 75 houses of members of the Christian community over the alleged desecration of the Holy Quran in the village Azafi Abadi at Gojra-Faisalabad Road. Seventy-five houses and two churches were burnt by the residents of a neighbouring village.

    2009 – February: Five Ahmadis in Punjab’s Layyah district were arrested on charges of writing blasphemous remarks in the toilets of Kot Sultan’s Gulzar-e-Madina mosque. No evidence or witness was presented. They were just detained on a ‘presumption of guilt,’ stated the Human Rights Commission of Pakistan.

    2009 – January 28: The Punjab police arrested a labourer and four students for blasphemy, all of whom were Ahmadis. They were accused of writing the name of Prophet Mohammed on the wall of a toilet in a Sunni mosque. Investigations into the case revealed that the accusation was baseless.

    There is much more. Read it all.

    http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/027147.php#respond

  234. Australia: Somali jihadists operated out of mosque

    Here is yet another story that follows the now-familiar pattern: a Westernized, secular Muslim becomes more religious, joins a prayer group, and ends up being caught up in terrorist activity. Yet despite the recurrence of this pattern, we are simultaneously commanded, on pain of being branded a “bigot” and a “racist,” to adopt unquestioningly the dogma that those who commit violence in the name of Islam are twisting and hijacking the religion. The implications of the fact that the “hijackers” seem always to claim that they represent true and authentic Islam, and to be operating out of mosques, seem to escape all the learned analysts.

    Decent Fellows Update: “Somali terror suspects ‘new to mosque,'” by Drew Warne-Smith and Lauren Wilson in The Australian, August 6 (thanks to Roseanne):

    SOMALI terror suspects Saney Edow Aweys, Yacqub Khayre and Abdirahman Ahmed began attending the controversial 8 Blacks prayer centre in North Melbourne this year, only a few months before they were charged with plotting a terrorist attack.

    Police and intelligence agencies have long regarded the old snooker hall turned makeshift mosque, nestled behind a 7-Eleven store on Boundary Road, as a key hub in the militant islamist net-work.

    Agencies had placed the hall under surveillance.

    All three accused had previously prayed at another Melbourne mosque — the name of which is suppressed — before moving to 8 Blacks, where they took religious instruction in the same small “reading group” throughout this year.

    The Australian has learned that Mr Aweys, a 27-year-old father of four, started praying regularly at the mosque about January.

    But for at least a year before that, he visited the prayer hall on occasions, even lending his labouring skills to install a security gate at the entrance to the building’s car park.

    http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/027141.php#respond

  235. Glenn Beck claimed that he read the Qur’an front to back and came away unequivocally that islam is a religion of peace. He is a smart guy so I know he didnt read it because its not, particularly the Medina half and especially Verse of the Swords and of course the whole chapter on how to divide up war booty.

  236. Bangladesh: Muslims extorting money, abducting women from Hindu minority

    And the sense of entitlement to tribute money is, of course, found in the Qur’an: “Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued” (9:29).

    “Muslim gang extorting money from minority Hindus in Bangladesh,” by William Gomes for Asia News, August 10:

    Dhaka (AsiaNews) – Some 20 Hindu families from the villages of Kalibari, Kajir Hat and Keramotia, in the sub-district of Sonagaji, southern Bangladesh, have become the victims of extortions and blackmail by members of the local Muslim majority, this according to representatives of the local Hindu minority. They complain that young Hindu women are being abducted to extort money from their families.

    Initially Jafar, Yunus, Saiful, Ripon, and other Muslims set up a criminal gang. Their first deed was to demand 45,000 taka (US$ 650) from the family of Nitia Das, in Kalibari.

    When other Hindus resisted attempts to extort money, the gang began persecuting Hindu families in the area’s villages.

    They abducted one young woman, demanding a ransom of 50,000 taka (US$ 725) for her release.

    In a second case a family had to pay 25,000 taka (just over US$ 360) to get the release of the young woman involved.

    A local Hindu, Boloram Das, who is related to the second kidnap victim, said that more threats have been made against local Hindus.

    One of the gang members, Yunus, is now threatening to marry a young Hindu woman against her will and that of her family.

    “Neither villagers nor police are willing to help us,” he lamented. In addition, “at least 20 Hindu families from the area are unable to go home.”

    Human rights activist Dipal Barua said that attacks against minorities are very much on the rise in Bangladesh.

    Strongly condemning violence, he called on the government to “take proper actions against the extortionists as soon as possible.”

    http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/027170.php#respond

    More “propaganda” for you Dodger

  237. Gaza jihadists lob shells at Israeli border crossing as Palestinian patients enter Israel for medical treatment

    The ironies abound. The headline of this Reuters story is “Israeli planes bomb Gaza tunnel.” Only in the fourth paragraph do we learn that this strike was in retaliation for rocket and mortar attacks upon Israel from Gaza, and only in the sixth paragraph do we learn that Palestinians crossing into Israel in an ambulance for medical treatment were at the border crossing when the jihadists fired upon it.

    By the way, during World War II, did Great Britain allow Germans to enter the country for medical treatment? Of course not. The very idea is absurd. Yet Israel admits people from a land whose leaders have again and again vowed to destroy Israel, and yet we still hear about the “humanitarian crisis:” in Gaza.

    “Israeli planes bomb Gaza tunnel,” from Reuters, August 10 (thanks to JCB):

    Israeli warplanes bombed a tunnel under the Gaza Strip border with Egypt today in the first such attack in almost two months, the Israeli military said.

    Witnesses and officials of the Islamist group Hamas which rules the enclave confirmed the pre-dawn strike. There were no reports of casualties.

    Gaza’s smuggling tunnels, which still number in the hundreds despite air attacks and an Egyptian crackdown in which some have been blown up or flooded, are a frequent target for Israeli retaliation for attacks by Gaza’s armed Palestinian groups.

    Today’s raid was launched in response to recent mortar and rocket attacks, an Israeli military spokeswoman said. It was the first aerial bombardment of the Gaza Strip since June 18th.

    The aircraft had targeted a tunnel under the border at Rafah which was suspected of being used to smuggle explosives into Gaza from Egypt, she added.

    Yesterday, two mortar rounds were fired near Israel’s fortified Erez border crossing as a number of medical patients going for treatment in Israel were being ferried out by ambulance….

    http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/027172.php#respond

    Israel is way too humane

  238. Gaza: Summer camps train teenagers for jihad

    And interior spiritual struggle, it ain’t. “Gaza Regime Prepares Children For Death,” by David Bedein for the August 10:

    Jerusalem — At a time when Israel continues to come under scathing criticism for the deaths of 22 children during Israel’s three week counter attack in Gaza last winter, the Gaza regime has been training teenagers as young as 14 in military camps throughout Gaza.

    This summer, Hamas and several other Palestinian militias have recruited high school students for military training. Gaza teenagers are being taught basic combat skills as well as the use of explosive belts for suicide missions.

    “In the war against Israel, there were more than 100 children trained to attack Israeli forces in Gaza,” a Gaza source told the Middle East Newsline, adding that “Some of them ran away and many of them were killed.”

    Most recently, the Saudi-owned news agency Elaph ran a news feature about the recruitment of teenagers by Islamic militias in the Gaza Strip and other parts of the Arab world. Elaph, based in Beirut, visited military training camps in the Gaza Strip that included teenagers.

    “Several minors who trained in Palestinian military camps confirmed that they were there of their own free will,” Elaph reported.

    Correspondents toured several youth military training camps in Gaza.

    One teenage fighter, who identified himself as Mohammed, an 11th grader, said that he underwent weapons training in Gaza’s Futuh district. The recruitment was said to have begun with Islamic sermons at mosques controlled by Hamas or Palestinian militias. Teenage recruits represented the youth wing of the militias at their school and eventually were invited to training camp.

    “A year ago, he [Mohammed] underwent training in carrying weapons, and received permission to aid resistance fighters in night reconnaissance of advancing Israeli military vehicles,” Elaph reported. “He was also trained to [aid the fighters] from a distance in armed clashes. Mohammed hopes to die defending the homeland for the sake of Allah, and follow his comrades who have already reached paradise.”

    “There are institutions belonging to organizations dealing with educating children and deepening their awareness by means of summer camps” said Abu Mohammed, a senior agent in the Iranian-sponsored Islamic Jihad, based in Gaza.

    Meanwhile, the Gaza regime now employs thousands of children to construct and operate the tunnel network between the Gaza Strip and Egypt.

    The youngsters help dig tunnels to smuggle weapons from Egypt to Gaza.

    A Palestinian report asserted that 16,000 people have been working in an estimated 800 tunnels that span the city of Rafah, which remains artificially divided between Egypt and Gaza… The report by the Palestinian Center for Democracy and Conflict Resolution, estimated that half of the employees were under age 18.

    The report said about 25 percent of the Palestinian victims of tunnel collapses were teenagers. The center said 30 of the 115 casualties since 2007 were below age 18.

    In early July four Palestinian children suffocated to death in the tunnel network.

    On late July five Palestinians teenagers were killed in a fire in a tunnel.

    The teenagers were said to earn less than $30 per day, spending more than 10 hours underground.

    http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/027176.php#respond

    Just for DOI to dodge because he cant debate the issue. :-)

  239. Elric, as usual you’re focused on the wrong thing. Islam is not the problem here …. a nutjob father is the problem. Of course he should not have custody of the daughter as he as already threatened her.

    You don’t think Christian fathers beat the living hell out of their children for various “sins”?

    If the court awards the father custody out of fear of being accused of Islamobphobia, then they are clearly wrong.

  240. “Islam is not the problem here …. a nutjob father is the problem.”

    Really? That islam requires those that leave islam with death has nothing to do with it?

    “You don’t think Christian fathers beat the living hell out of their children for various “sins”?”

    Jesus never said “beat your kids”. Mo said “Death for those that leave islam?

    I know you are a drone but do you have enough intellect to see that difference?

  241. I can cherry pick the Bible too:

    “He that spareth his rod hateth his son: but he that loveth him chasteneth him betimes.

    (Proverbs 13:24)”

    Now you can say this is the Old Testament. So what? Jesus was a Jew.

    That islam requires those that leave islam with death has nothing to do with it?

    If I accept your supposition, I maintain Islam requires nothing. Men are born with free will. A man who reads the Koran and chooses to follow its more psychotic aspects, is himself a nutjob. Which circles me back to my original statement. In this case, Daddy is a nutjob.

  242. “I maintain Islam requires nothing.”

    Arent we desperate? No wonder you never dodge debating islam. Just stick with your Thuggy worship and your PDS.

  243. “A man who reads the Koran and chooses to follow its more psychotic aspects, is himself a nutjob.”

    So would you consider islam’s founder and prophet a nutjob? I know you wont answer that because every time I ask, you avoid. Of course we know why. If you admit to it, then you must admit that the “religion” itself is psychotic in nature. And that would go against your multicultural nature.

  244. If you admit to it, then you must admit that the “religion” itself is psychotic in nature.

    Wow are you barking up the wrong tree there. I think all religions are pretty psychotic in nature and that most of their founders were nutjobs. Sorry but you won’t get far on that one.

  245. “Wow are you barking up the wrong tree there. I think all religions are pretty psychotic in nature and that most of their founders were nutjobs. Sorry but you won’t get far on that one.”

    Of course you think that. You are a multiculturalist who views all cultures the same even if they are not. So how was Jesus a “nutjob”? Or better yet, how was mo-bomb-ed not a nutjob?

  246. Embrace Me, My Sweet Embraceable Mo [Mark Steyn]

    The news that Mohammed is the most popular boy’s name in the Netherlands’s four biggest cities prompts what Tim Blair calls the most clueless headline of the week:

    Dutch Embrace Islamic Name

    Well, that’s one way of putting it.

    Incidentally, whenever one of these Mohammed-is-the-most-popular-boy’s-name stories comes up, I always get a ton of letters from the multiculti types saying the statistic is entirely specious because they’re combining “Mohammed,” “Mohamed,” “Muhammed,” “Muhammad,” “Mohamet,” etc, all of which are entirely different names, as different as “Chip” and “Gaylord.” So just for the record:

    In The Hague, variations of the name Mohammed have taken first, second and fifth place in the table of most popular names for boys.

    Which will be the first European city in which variations of Mohammed claim a straight sweep of the Top Five?

    And, if you combine the Mohammedan spellings, you get an even sharper idea of where things are headed. The most popular names for newborn boys in Brussels, the capital city of the European Union, for 2006:

    1) Mohamed
    2) Adam
    3) Rayan
    4) Ayoub
    5) Mehdi
    6) Amine
    7) Hamza

    Adam? What kind of cockamamie name is that for a Walloon?

    Let’s take it as read that I and Martin Amis (an impeccably liberal novelist) and Claire Berlinski (a woman who chooses to live in Istanbul) and Ayaan Hirsi Ali (a Dutch woman of Somali Muslim origin) and Bruce Bawer (a gay man resident in Scandinavia) and the rest of us are all xenophobic racist right-wing nuts suffering from psychosexual panic. There’s a fascinating story here that even the squishiest multiculti pantywaist ought to be capable of seeing. Why leave the field to us loons?

  247. Nigeria: Jihadists demolish 20 churches, murder three pastors

    And as always, the world yawns. Yet just consider the international publicity, and outcry, this would provoke if the perpetrators and victims were reversed.

    “3 pastors killed, 20 churches demolished in Nigeria violence,” from the Baptist Press, August 13 (thanks to DFS):

    MAIDUGURI, Nigeria (BP)–Twelve Christians, including three pastors, were killed and 20 churches were demolished in Nigeria amid escalating religiously motivated violence, prompting a call for government intervention.

    Conflicts between Christians and Muslims have gone largely unchecked by the Nigerian government, and the U.S. Commission on International Religious Freedom this year placed the African nation on its list of “countries of particular concern.”

    International Christian Concern, a U.S.-based human rights group, is asking people to sign a petition calling on Nigerian officials to bring perpetrators to justice and work to prevent further attacks. The petition is accessible at persecution.org/suffering/petitions. ICC also is asking concerned citizens to contact the Nigerian Embassy in Washington at 202-986-8400.

    In a report Aug. 6, ICC said the attacks that occurred July 26 in Maiduguri were instigated by Boko Haram, a group that opposes Western education and fights to impose sharia law throughout Nigeria, including areas that are largely Christian.

    Sabo Yakubu, a husband, father of seven and pastor of a Church of Christ congregation, was hacked to death by a machete, ICC said. Also killed were Sylvester Akpan, pastor of National Evangelical Mission, and George Orji, pastor of Good News of Christ Church.

    “Mohammed Yusuf, the Islamic sect leader who initially said their targets were government property and security agencies, later changed and started setting ablaze churches and killing pastors who had nothing to do with their activities,” Yuguda Zubagai Ndurvuwa, chairman of the Christian Association of Nigeria, said in a statement reported by ICC….

    http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/027254.php#respond

    Gee Dodger, how many churches need to burn down before you get a clue. Oh and btw, how many mosques are being burned down by non muslims?

  248. Rome: Egyptian charged with genital mutilation of 11-year-old girl

    He did it for 27 bucks. “Egypt: Infibulation On 11 Year-Old, 1st Charges Brought,” from ANSAmed, August 14 (thanks to Insubria):

    (ANSAmed) – ROME, AUGUST 14 – An Egyptian man has been charged with practicing female circumcision on an 11 year-old girl, reports the website of TV station Al Arabiya today. Ahmed Gad al-Karim, 69 year-old, is the first person to be tried for this type of procedure since an Egyptian law came into effect which treats all types of female genital mutilation as a crime. The law, which was passed in 2008, was fiercely criticised by the Islamic Brotherhood and by supporters of the Egyptian parliament, who maintained that they supported the practice as “conforming to Sharia law (Islamic law) and protecting the chastity of women”. However, the Islamic Institution responsible for religious opinion (Dar al-Iftaa) responded by saying that female genital mutilation is not part of the Islamic culture.

    “Circumcision is obligatory (O: for both men and women. For men it consists of removing the prepuce from the penis, and for women, removing the prepuce (Ar. bazr) of the clitoris (n: not the clitoris itself, as some mistakenly assert). (A: Hanbalis hold that circumcision of women is not obligatory but sunna, while Hanafis consider it a mere courtesy to the husband.)” — ‘Umdat al-Salik e4.3

    What is ‘Umdat al-Salik? Cairo’s prestigious and influential Al-Azhar University certifies that it “conforms to the practice and faith of the orthodox Sunni Community (Ahl al-Sunna was al-Jama’a).”

    Ahmed Gad al-Karim is accused of practicing infibulation after requests by the girl’s family. He was paid USD 27, according to investigators, for performing the operation, and used a standard scalpel during the operation. The girl was admitted to the local hospital in Minya, 600 km south of Cairo immediately afterwards, fighting for her life. “The Government must protect Egyptian women so that they can grow up in a healthy environment” said Cairòs Public Prosecutor. “Despite the Egyptian law against female genital mutilation, many women all over Egypt still undergo this kind of operation”. Female genital mutilation in all its forms, including the most serious, like infibulation, is practiced in Egypt and in the other 27 African nations, both by Muslims and Christians, and contrary to popular belief it has no religious basis. (ANSAmed).

    How’s that again? It has no religious basis?

    Then why is a manual of Islamic law endorsed by the foremost institution in Sunni Islam say that “circumcision” is “obligatory” for women as well as men?

    http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/027255.php#respond

    As DOIAD says, we must tolerate these little girls getting their genitals mutilated.

  249. Islam and Monoculture
    By Murphy Donovan

    Good read

    OK here’s my question Elric. I skimmed the article and from what I can see the author argues against monoculturalism and uses Islam as his example of why it is bad. Therefore, he is for multiculturalism.

    So do I now understand your stance to be that multiculturalism is ok so long as we exclude monocultural cultures (such as Islam)?

  250. “So do I now understand your stance to be that multiculturalism is ok so long as we exclude monocultural cultures (such as Islam)?”

    To a point. It depends on the mono cultural culture. The Amish are very monocultural but are no threat to the homelands culture. The Amish keep to themselves, bother no one. The islamic mono cultural culture is a danger to any host nations culture thats not islamic. Its nature is to push its culture onto its host’s culture by any means necessary. And that doesnt always mean blowing crap up. Groups like CAIR do damage without setting off a bomb.

    I dont mind other cultures that compliment our values and traditions. I do mind a culture that is at war with any alien culture.

    Just look up the terms Dar-al-islam and dar-al-Haub.

  251. Al-Qaeda boasts that “spectacular attacks” coming in UK

    From jihadists living in Britain. “Al-Qaeda warns of ‘spectacular attacks’ on UK,” from ExpressIndia, August 17 (thanks to all who sent this in):

    In an astounding revelation, Al-Qaeda extremists have claimed that home-grown terrorists are plotting to attack targets in Britain.

    According to reports, in an internet magazine read by thousands of Islamic extremists Al-Qaeda has labeled Britain and Europe as a bigger enemy than the United States.

    It further says that the strikes are being planned by terrorists living in Britain and others overseas, and warns of “spectacular attacks”, ‘The Sun’ reports.

    The site is promoted by supporters of deported hate preacher Abdullah al-Faisal who was booted out of Britain after serving a jail sentence for being found guilty of three charges of soliciting the murder of Jews, Americans, and Hindus, and two charges of using threatening words to stir up racial hatred.

    http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/027263.php#respond

    Hmmmmmm home grown, now why is that? Though its funny they view the UK as a threat with all the bending over they have done.

  252. BRITISH Muslim fanatics sparked fresh fury last night by praising Taliban “heroes” for sending our troops back from Afghanistan in body bags.

    Dozens of homegrown “jihadis” have posted website messages cheering last weekend’s carnage in Helmand province that saw Britain’s death toll rise to 204 soldiers.

    Last night there were calls by senior politicians for the Home Office to crack down on the hate-filled rants that will distress even further the relatives of troops who gave their lives fighting the Taliban.

    The shameful website involved stoked up hatred as it emerged that one of two soldiers killed trying to save their mortally wounded commander had recently got married before deploying to Afghanistan.

    The commander had got engaged while home on leave in June.

    The tragedies were revealed yesterday as the Ministry of Defence named the three soldiers, all from 2nd Battalion The Royal Regiment of Fusiliers, who died on Sunday.

    The gloating jihadi website, Islamic Awakening, is a forum for Islamic extremism, prompting a slew of vile attacks on the efforts of British troops to rescue Afghanistan from the grip of fundamentalists.

    The first messages were posted within minutes of the news of the latest outrage in Helmand on Sunday.

    “Isma’eel”, said: “Man, they really are dropping like flies over there lol [laugh out loud].”

    Another, calling himself “AbuJunayd”, said: “Inshallah [God-willing] the more the kuffs [non-Muslims] deploy, the more the bros will send em back in body bags, or crutches or with serious psychological problems.”

    http://www.weaselzippers.net/blog/2009/08/uk-islamists-praise-taliban-heroes-for-sending-home-british-soldiers-in-body-bags.html#comments

    Im sure DOIAD approves. Dont you DOIAD?

  253. You google those terms yet Dodger. I know you are busy with playing the race card with gun owner and visualizing the size of their penises but surely you can take 5 minutes to google those 2 terms. Or are you just scared because it would shoot a hole in your theory about islam and multiculturalism?

  254. Father of Malaysian model facing caning for drinking beer: Don’t flog her in jail, do it in public

    An appalling update on this story. “Father Wants Public Caning for Malaysian Woman Who Drank Beer,” by Ranjeetha Pakiam for Bloomberg, August 20:

    Aug. 20 (Bloomberg) — The caning of a Malaysian mother for drinking a beer should be conducted in public if it is meant to set an example to fellow Muslims, her father said, days before the punishment is set to be carried out in a closed prison.

    Kartika Sari Dewi Shukarno, 32, faces six strokes of the cane after a Shariah court found the former model guilty of breaking a law that forbids all Muslims, including foreign visitors, from drinking alcohol. After deciding not to appeal, she may become the first woman to be caned in Malaysia.

    The Shariah court in the eastern state of Pahang allowed 14 days from sentencing on July 20 for Kartika to appeal. After she declined, the court fixed Aug. 24 to 30 for the Prisons Department to conduct the sentence, said Mohamad Isa Abd Ralip, president of the Syariah Lawyers Association of Malaysia.

    Kartika will be held for a week at the women’s prison in Kajang outside Kuala Lumpur, a decision that has puzzled her father, Shukarno Abdul Muttalib.

    “As a Muslim, I agree with her punishment, but I don’t agree that it should be done in jail, she is not a prisoner,” Shukarno, 60, told Bloomberg in an interview. “If the authorities want to use this as an example, then the caning should be done in public in Pahang.”

    Here’s some twisted logic:

    The businessman said it was embarrassing for his daughter to be brought to prison where criminals are held. If there was no alternative, Shukarno said he would ask the authorities to allow him and the media to attend the caning to ensure transparency….

    http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/027290.php#respond

    Cant make this stuff up

  255. Muslim smugglers hid heroin in Koran — watch for the international riots

    Remember Newsweek’s spurious “Koran in the toilet” story, and the outrage and murder it touched off? There is almost certainly going to be no similar outcry from Muslims about this story — which provides yet more evidence of the fact that that outrage was trumped up in the first place, politically motivated, and designed to try to intimidate the West into making various concessions. This incident has no such potential value, and thus will drop into the memory hole with no jihadists noting or remembering it.

    “Indonesian Smugglers ‘Hid Heroin In Koran,'” from SkyNews, August 20 (thanks to Paul):

    A man and his mother-in-law have been arrested for attempting to smuggle thousands of pounds worth of heroin concealed within a copy of the Koran.

    Heroin bags were found hidden in the pages of the Koran

    Custom officials at Jakarta’s international airport seized the book, the religious text of Islam, as it arrived by DHL express mail delivery from Cambodia on Tuesday.

    Their suspicions were raised when a routine X-ray of the parcel exposed a series of holes in the book.

    A closer inspection revealed 60 grams of heroin secreted in four small plastic bags near its front and back covers.

    Police valued the hoard at 600 million rupiah, or £35,000….

    Maman Sulaeman, head of customs at Soekarno-Hatta International Airport, said an Indonesian man was arrested soon after the discovery.

    “He claimed that he was just a courier and that he did not know the contents of the package,” Mr Sulaeman said….

    http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/027300.php#respond

  256. Somali jihadists crack down on music, dancing at wedding celebrations

    All the better to make Somalia even more joyless: “There is no humor in Islam. There is no fun in Islam. There can be no fun and joy in whatever is serious.” — Ayatollah Khomeini

    “Islamist Militants Restrict Somali Wedding Celebrations,” from VOA News, August 20:

    In a typical Somali wedding, women wear brightly colored gowns, gold jewelry and elaborate hairstyles. They dance with men to the tunes of Somali love songs, performed by a vocalist and a pianist.

    But in recent months, traditional wedding celebrations have been banned. Islamist groups have seized control in several parts of Somalia and say the restrictions are in line with the teachings of Islam.

    Music and dancing are no longer allowed. The groups say Islam forbids the mingling of women and men. Somali Islamist militants carry their weapons as they patrol the streets of northern Mogadishu

    “Allah Mighty and Majestic sent me as a guidance and mercy to believers and commanded me to do away with musical instruments, flutes, strings, crucifixes, and the affair of the pre-Islamic period of ignorance.” – Muhammad

    Convoys carrying family and friends of the couple have also been banned. The Islamists allow only three cars at a wedding and check to make sure the vehicles are carrying only the immediate families of the couple.

    Islamist militant groups are adamant about imposing Islamic Sharia law in Somalia and banning any form of entertainment they deem to be un-Islamic.

    No dancing, no music

    Hussein Yusuf Anabore a long time wedding planner remembers how weddings used to be elaborate.

    “After the bride has been picked up convoys of cars blaring Somali music would escort her to the wedding venue. Extended family members and participants would clap and cheer, with everyone dancing and mingling. These days, people just conduct prayer services, and dancing is not permitted,” Anabore laments.

    Some of the areas’ bachelors favor the restrictions. They say the changes will completely eliminate unnecessary expenses. Even the women admit the restrictions favor the men.

    For those residing in the cities of Marka and Kismayo, where hard-line Islamist groups are in control, the change is hard to embrace. Many are disheartened, especially over no longer being allowed to film the weddings. They say they intend to be married only once, and the rules deprive them of being able to record a memorable moment in their lives.

    http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/027298.php#respond

    islam bring joy wherever it reaches

  257. Ok Elric … dar al-islam: countries where people may freely practice Islam.

    Dar al-harb (appears to be correct spelling although I found dar al-haub in some places): neighboring non-Muslim countries with whom Muslim countries have no treaties.

    You left out dar al-kufr which appears to be from what I can see, close to Muslim but not close enough to matter. (Another source I looked at basically made dar al-kufr synonymous with dar al-harb.)

    And now that I’ve googled it, I ask you … so what?

  258. “And now that I’ve googled it, I ask you … so what?”

    It means house of war. Anything not islamic is a house of war. You know any other religion that refers to lands not controlled by its religion as a house of war.

  259. It means house of war.

    Elric would it interest you to know that an alternative Arabic translation is dar al-garb which means “house of the west”?

    You see, this is one reason why I find arguing over religious texts somewhat fruitless because they are open to interpretation even within a commonly agreed upon translation, much less across different translations.

  260. I dare you to comment on this Dodger.

    LOL … who wants a stinky bride? There might be a good number of Christian grooms who would value this assessment from their mother. :-)

    Seriously, if this is the worst indignity coming out of Islam, things ain’t so bad after all. Of course, you’ve posted videos of far worse abuse so I’m not quite sure why you’re watering down your argument with this relatively minor issue.

  261. “As DOIAD says, we must tolerate these little girls getting their genitals mutilated.”

    Fuck you, you cum-guzzling Islamaphobe. I have never said such a thing. In fact, I have spoken out against that practice several times.

    Pull the cock out of your mouth, pluck the pubes from your eyes, and find a quote that says I support FGM.

    Just because I am in favor of a multicultural society does not mean that I support every practice within every culture.

    Clear enough? Or does it need to be spelled out in man-juice all over your chest?

  262. Red Pill …. ahem, wee bit over the top dontcha think? Not that I want to give Elric a break or anything but damn …. for a religious thread, this one has gone into XXX territory big time. :-)

    I’m not sure which image is more disturbing … FGM or Elric plucking pubes from his eyes. :shock:

  263. For fear of the flying man-juices, I’ll post some thoughts…

    Dar al-Harb is in fact the house of war and yes, it applies to the west and any other non-Muslim state/territory.

    The problem, if you consider it so, is that Islam has not gone through a referendum like Christianity has. Furthermore, you have a strict adversity to innovation, which is considered a major taboo in Sunni Islam (Shia is a little different but they are minority- about 12% of global Muslim community). Because there has not been a review of Islamic jurisprudence, there tends to be a literal interpretation of the Quran, Hadith and religious fatwa.

    So, what’s the issue? The Quran is made up of two conflicting sets of verses, the Hawk verses and the Dove verses. The Dove verses were written while Muhammad was in Medina, after having been exiled from Mecca. The Hawk verses come about following his successful capture of Medina, and later Mecca. The Hawk verses are more aggressive and reflect a conquering mindset. Because a larger portion of the Quran was written during this period, and because there is an absolute refusal to reinterpret ideological writings from a time when Islam was an emerging conquering power, it proves rather difficult to accommodate other competing religions.

    So, fast forward to today, where you have a cultural empire that has been in decline for several hundreds years and currently provides little to nothing as a culture- really, count and name the Muslims that have won Nobel prizes?- and you get those that yearn for the good ole days.

    We could get into the differing religious schools within both the Sunni and Shia sects, but that’s pretty far into the weeds and unless you’re like me and have to deal with this stuff daily, pretty damn boring…

  264. “Seriously, if this is the worst indignity coming out of Islam, things ain’t so bad after all. ”

    Ummm no. Just pointing out how screwed up their thinking is. Al-Azhar University is the Ivy league school of islam. In fact is the elite Ivy school of islam. Not some cleric from some remote village saying this, but an elite islamic scholar.

    Nice having you back DOIAD. Missed your rants. :-)

  265. “The problem, if you consider it so, is that Islam has not gone through a referendum like Christianity has.”

    It never will either. The qur’an is the literal word of allah, it can not be changed by man. Mo was a homicidal maniac but he wasnt stupid. Between claiming that the quran is the eternal word of allah and that he was the final prophet, he assured that islam will never ever be altered or reformed.

  266. “Whaaat?! I thought the was the funniest and best comment ever!”

    You are a drone and a simpleton, you would. But Im sure DOIAD appreciates your support since he defends you drones. :-)

  267. Sensico, you have a tougher stomach than I gave you credit for.

    Gorilla, I only recently became aware of your knowledge in the area of Islam. Even though this thread is some 300+ comments old, I’d really be interested to hear your thoughts on Wright’s theories concerning the ebb and flow of tolerance among religions throughout the ages. From what you’ve written here (i.e. the early Medina Mohammed vs the conquering Mohammed) it sounds like you ascribe to Wright’s approach. I personally found the win-win, win-lose dichotomy that he sets up pretty brilliant.

    Elric, Gorilla makes an interesting point, which I will paraphrase about Islam not going through the same self examination that Christianity has (in Gorilla’s terms, a referendum). Since Christianity has its fire and brimstone, fundamentalist bible-literalists, how does one account for them being in the minority of Christians … that they don’t seem to represent the greater part of the Christian community? You say Islam will never have a referendum. But why exactly?

    Gorilla, do you believe Mohammed was a homicidal maniac? And if so, what is inherently “defective” in the Muslim world that they wiould follow the teachings of such a man in such large number?

  268. Going waaaay back for a moment to the comment 129 area of this piece. Red Pill, I finally read your analysis of Sharia law and I wanted to thank you for the effort. Your bottom line confirms my own suspicion that everything is a matter of interpretation and that Sharia law cannot be generalized to represent the beliefs of every Muslim.

    Solar, I don’t think Robert Wright considers himself an atheist. I think he struggles with faith and if I remember correctly, Buddhism resonates most strongly with him, but I don’t think he’d call himself an atheist.

  269. “Since Christianity has its fire and brimstone, fundamentalist bible-literalists, how does one account for them being in the minority of Christians … that they don’t seem to represent the greater part of the Christian community?”

    Because they have Jesus as a role model and his teachings. He was a man of love and peace while Mo was the opposite. For some reason you cant grasp that fundamental difference between the 2 prophets.

  270. Sharia 1, Colorado meat packing plant 0

    Just imagine this: “JBS has created two chapels for Christian workers inside the plant — one for Roman Catholics and one for Protestants. Also, the company has installed holy water fonts for Roman Catholics that allow workers to anoint themselves with holy water, which is custom on entering the chapel.”

    Imagine what the outcry would be.

    But this — this is fine!

    Stealth Jihad at Swift Update: “JBS, Muslims vow harmony,” by Chris Casey in the Greeley Tribune, August 21 (thanks to John):

    Just a day before the beginning of Ramadan, the holy month of fast and prayer for Muslims, talks between meatplant workers, union representatives and company officials continued in earnest.

    The objective: Avoid a repeat of the showdown at sundown that flared at JBS USA meatpacking plants in Greeley and Grand Island, Neb., last September.

    During Ramadan, Muslims don’t eat or drink during daylight hours. They break their daily fast after sunset prayers.

    Miscommunication about how to handle the religious practices resulted in more than 100 Muslim workers — mostly Somalis, but also other East African refugees who’ve moved to Greeley in recent years — being fired last September for walking off production lines.

    Graen Isse, a Somali who helps operate the East Africa Community Center in Greeley, said he thinks conflicts will be avoided this year.

    “We have good communication with the company,” he said. “I don’t think it’s going to happen. Before, there was no communication at all. The key is communication.”

    Unlike last year at this time, JBS has created two prayer rooms for Muslim workers inside the plant — one for men and one for women. Also, the company has installed stations in restrooms that allow workers to thoroughly wash, which is custom before prayers.

    Still, some Muslims on the B shift, which runs from late afternoon to late evening and runs into prayers at sundown, have requested a monthlong switch to the daytime A shift to avoid conflicts, Isse said.

    “I don’t think they’re going to move 400 workers to A shift,” Isse said of JBS. “It’s hard for them to do.”…

    Yes, but now that Swift is in “How high?” mode, so now is the time to press for that.

    http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/027339.php#respond

    This should make DOIAD happy but not happy enough.

  271. Filipino jihadist, leader of Christian converts to Islam jihad group, arrested

    “Dino Amor Pareja, the leader of the Rajah Solaiman Movement, a group of Christians who had converted to become Islamic militants…”

    Who converted him? Under what influences did he convert? Why did he so misunderstand his brand new peaceful religion?

    I keep asking such questions whenever stories come up of converts to Islam being involved in jihad activity, and they come up often. In asking these questions, I am calling the bluff of the mainstream media and the Islamic groups in the West, who insist that we must believe that Islam is a Religion of Peace on pain of charges of “bigotry” and “Islamophobia.” And I will keep on calling that bluff until everyone sees through the fog of deception still blankets the West courtesy those Islamic groups and their allies in the media. If Islam is a Religion of Peace, and only “Islamophobes” see it in any other way, why do so many converts to Islam keep getting it so terribly, terribly wrong? And if Islam is not a Religion of Peace, why is so much domestic and foreign policy in the U.S. and Europe based on the assumption that it is and always will be?

    “Head of Filipino ‘terror’ group arrested: police,” from AFP, August 25 (thanks to James):

    MANILA — Police said Tuesday they had arrested the head of a group of Islamist militants behind a deadly bombing in the Philippines capital, who also plotted attacks against US targets.

    http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/027340.php#respond

    I feel your pain Mr. Spencer. I ask the same questions here and the multicultural drones refuse to answer as well.

  272. Gorilla, I only recently became aware of your knowledge in the area of Islam. Even though this thread is some 300+ comments old, I’d really be interested to hear your thoughts on Wright’s theories concerning the ebb and flow of tolerance among religions throughout the ages. From what you’ve written here (i.e. the early Medina Mohammed vs the conquering Mohammed) it sounds like you ascribe to Wright’s approach. I personally found the win-win, win-lose dichotomy that he sets up pretty brilliant. — R

    Certainly. Game theory is fun and interesting, but only applicable when you need a confrontational environment. Empire is a great motivator and defining the world into the house of Islam and the house of war is telling.
    Elric, Gorilla makes an interesting point, which I will paraphrase about Islam not going through the same self examination that Christianity has (in Gorilla’s terms, a referendum). Since Christianity has its fire and brimstone, fundamentalist bible-literalists, how does one account for them being in the minority of Christians … that they don’t seem to represent the greater part of the Christian community? You say Islam will never have a referendum. But why exactly? — R

    Try looking at Islam as a way of life rather than a spiritual structure. When you do that, you see Islam as more of a political ideology rather than a theological ideology. For instance, look at the primary schism of Islam- Sunni versus Shia. We see these as two different sects of Islam with different theological beliefs within the structure of Islam, but Sunni translates to followers of tradition whereas Shia translate to partisans of Ali. Basically, the issue was succession- who was going to be the leader of the Islamic empire. Yes, there are some theological differences now, several hundred years later, but this was and is, ultimately, a political difference.

    So, to your question of the difference between Islam and Christianity, consider European Christianity before Charlemagne. The church controlled both social life as well as political power. It approved monarchial accession, it financed military campaigns, and could- through religious fiat- oppose and, if necessary, depose the monarchy.

    Religion has to be looked at in two spectrums, the masses and the individual. For the individual, religion is about theological structure and doctrine. For the masses, religion is about political control. The church has a long and sordid history of manipulating the masses towards political goals through theological edicts to the masses.

    Islam isn’t much different, but since it has not had this fundamental reexamination of the edits and tenets of the religious doctrine, it will be difficult to fundamentally constrain the ‘fringe’ when the ‘fringe’ aren’t necessarily outside of the mainstream edicts of the doctrine.
    Gorilla, do you believe Mohammed was a homicidal maniac? And if so, what is inherently “defective” in the Muslim world that they wiould follow the teachings of such a man in such large number? — R

    Homicidal? No. Maniacal, maybe. He was conquering lands and people, who was the leader of a group of people who thought they were following God, so there’s certainly something to that.

    My issue with Islam lies in the premise that it is a political structure shrouded in religious edict. Can anyone say Branch dividians….

  273. UK prison spends $27,000 on footbaths and toilets for Muslims

    But why? What makes them think they’re going to have any inmates who adhere to the Religion of Peace™? Expect the Muslim Council of Britain to take this prison to task for its “Islamophobia” for anticipating that it will have any Muslim inmates at all.

    Absurd Britannia Update: “Prison spends £17,000 on footbaths and toilets for Muslims,” from the Telegraph, August 27 (thanks to Lazy Buddha):

    A prison spent £17,000 on special toilets for foreigners and footbaths for Muslims.

    Figures obtained from the Ministry of Justice under the Freedom of Information Act show that the money was spent on two footbaths, a “squat” toilet and a shower area at Canterbury Prison in Kent, which only holds foreign nationals awaiting deportation and has 92 Muslim inmates.

    Footbaths are often used by Muslims as they are required to wash their feet before prayer. However, the area is not exclusive to Muslims and can be used by all inmates.

    What a relief! I’m sure many grime-footed inmates will want to avail themselves of this boon!

    The expenditure was condemned by the TaxPayers’ Alliance.

    Matthew Elliott, chief executive, said: “It’s ridiculous that we are spending so much money on prisoners who should have been deported, rather than kept here as a burden on innocent taxpayers.

    “Making basic provision for people’s needs is one thing, but there is no reason at all why there should be special toilets installed. If prison doesn’t have the perfect toilet facilities for you, then you shouldn’t have committed a crime, it isn’t meant to be nice.”…

    Uh, yeah.

    The board also stressed no complaints have been received of non-Muslims being denied access to the area.

    This is ridiculous. Why would they want to be there in the first place?

    Other measures have been taken to accommodate the prison’s global population, including a multi-faith area allowing all inmates to practise their religion. Muslim prisoners are permitted one hour’s use every Friday for prayers.

    Islamic prayer timetables are provided, the Koran is available on request and an Imam is employed for 18 hours a week to carry out generic work and faith duties.

    http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/027376.php#respond

    Gee for such a peaceful religion, the Brits are sure going out of their way to please a specific religion in their prisons.

  274. Bangladesh: Catholic women can’t attend Mass due to threats from Muslim villagers

    Not surprisingly, authorities have done nothing. Islamic Tolerance Alert. “Bangladesh: Muslims threaten Catholic women of Dewtola village,” by William Gomes for AsiaNews, August 27:

    Dhaka (AsiaNews) – Catholic women of the village of Dewtola can no longer go to mass because of continual threats from local Muslims. For the past several weeks tensions have been mounting around the parish of St. Francis Xavier in Golla, Nawabgonj district.

    Michael Gomes, a local Catholic leader, tells AsiaNews that “defenceless women and children are being intimidated. Most of the men of the village have emigrated to Europe or moved to Dhaka to find work”.

    The threats originate from disputes over the village market where many stalls are run by some of the more than 3 thousand 700 Christians living in the area. Muslim traders want to take possession of them and have already on several occasions tried to use force to expel the non Muslim owners.

    Incidents like this arise from the sense of self-importance and entitlement fueled by Qur’anic diatribes against unbelievers (see, in particular: 3:110, 5:59-60, 98:6) and enshrined in the tenets of Sharia.

    Already in 2006, for the same reason, a crowd of 200 people attacked the Catholic faithful as they were going to church and destroyed some of their stalls at the market. “Now the climate is back to being that of three years ago – says Gomes – we live in a situation of deep insecurity and despite having alerted the local authorities nothing has happened.”

    The story is further complicated by the private interest of local politicians. Gomes says that “the local union leader is linked to the Muslims and says that the market can not be the exclusive property of Christians”.

    http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/027377.php#respond

    I must say Dodger, you defend islam as well as you do Thuggy.

  275. Wilders: 80-year-old Muslim who married 10-year-old “is behaving like a pig, just like the barbarous Prophet Mohammed, who married the six year old girl Aisha”

    Now this will be interesting. Right now Wilders is playing offense: “The PVV leader wants Verhagen to summon the Saudi Arabian ambassador to express his repugnance.” But expect the cascade of protests and condemnations — from both Muslims and dhimmis — to begin soon. Still, however, this puts those who will condemn Wilders in a peculiar position. If they take issue with his characterization of Muhammad, they will either be excusing the Muslim prophet’s marriage to a six-year-old and declining to condemn those Muslims who imitate their prophet by taking child brides, or, if they say that Muhammad didn’t actually marry a child, they’re in the position of denying evidence that is in the sources Muslims consider most reliable. Yet as this incident with the 80-year-old and his 10-year-old bride demonstrates (“my marriage is not against Shariah,” said the codger), many Muslims take that evidence quite seriously.

    “Wilders Compares Prophet Mohammed to Pig,” from NIS News, August 28 (thanks to Ebonystone):

    THE HAGUE, 28/08/09 – Party for Freedom (PVV) leader Geert Wilders has seized on a news report from Saudi Arabia for peppery written questions to the cabinet. In these, he compares the Islamic prophet Mohammed to a pig.

    Wilders has requested clarification from Foreign Minister Maxime Verhagen on a marriage in Saudi Arabia between an 80 year old man and a 10 year old child. The child had run away from her elderly husband, but was brought back to him by her father, the English-language website Arab News reports based on a Saudi newspaper.

    Wilders asks the minister if he shares the view that “this man is behaving like a pig, just like the barbarous Prophet Mohammed, who married the six year old girl Aisha.” The PVV leader wants Verhagen to summon the Saudi Arabian ambassador to express his repugnance.

    http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/027397.php#respond

    Geert rocks!

  276. “We could get into the differing religious schools within both the Sunni and Shia sects, but that’s pretty far into the weeds and unless you’re like me and have to deal with this stuff daily, pretty damn boring…”

    That is pretty much the long comment of mine that Rutherford got around to reading…LOL.

    It’s not boring to me, and I would love to someday have to deal with it daily in some kind of scholarly or advisory fashion.

    Glad to see someone with an open and educated mind on this stuff come in here. I see you have Elric so intimidated that he doesn’t have the stones to do you like he does me and tell you how wrong you are, even though we say virtually some of the exact same things.

  277. Denmark: “All the Danes and Jews must die”

    23 families have been forced to move out of an apartment complex because of one other family, identified only as “Lebanese,” that subjected them to “harassment, violence and threats” on a “daily basis,” including their children “throwing rocks and spitting at other families in the building’s playground area. When they were told to stop, their parents came down to the playground armed with knives and clubs.”

    Elisabeth Dreijer Sørensen, a representative of the 23 families, recounts: “Yes, I got a red cross on my door. And later we learned what it means – that we are infidels, and that we’re on the death list.”

    This “Lebanese” family must no doubt be Maronite!

    http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/027402.php#respond

    Isnt multiculturalism great! We must tolerate this per order from DOIAD.

  278. Whats that ? The difference between Shia and Sunni? Besides the line of succession there isnt much difference. Both share the same intolerance of non Muslims.

    Anything else DOIAD?

  279. “Anything else DOIAD?”

    I would tell you to go back and read what I have written, but that doesn’t seem to be one of your strong points these days.

    “Isnt multiculturalism great! We must tolerate this per order from DOIAD.”

    Right. Because I specifically said that tolerating other cultures doesn’t mean tolerating all of their practices.

    I can’t believe they let you in the Air Force with your level of reading comprehension.

  280. “Right. Because I specifically said that tolerating other cultures doesn’t mean tolerating all of their practices.”

    No, you said we must tolerate intolerance. Isnt that the multicultural slogan?

  281. “Just because I am in favor of a multicultural society does not mean that I support every practice within every culture. ”

    Look familiar, asslick?

  282. Well DOIAD, if you want to change your stance, thats quite alright. Next time when someone asks you if you should tolerate intolerance, just say no. It will save a lot of embarrassment on your part in the future. :-)

  283. That isn’t changing my stance.

    I assume you favor the American political system to any other.

    But you obviously don’t support every belief and practice within that system.

    See the difference?

    Just because I support multiculturalism and believe that we should have tolerance of all cultures—even the intolerant ones—doesn’t mean that I favor every practice within every culture.

    It doesn’t even mean that I think we should tolerate the intolerance of intolerant cultures. We should tolerate the culture and teach them tolerance. Which is difficult to do if we are intolerant ourselves.

    If you have actually ever read what I have said, you’ll find I have said that many times.

  284. “We should tolerate the culture and teach them tolerance.”

    LOL Yeah thats going to work out well. Like islam is going to listen to the words of a kafir over the teachings in the qur’an and ahadiths. Hasnt worked out yet and never will.

    But then I am not naive to think all cultures can be peaceful. And I am not willing to risk our culture to find out. Europe already did and they lost.

  285. Honor killings on the rise

    Today there is another hearing in the Rifqa Bary case in Orlando, Florida, and Fox Orlando has this backgrounder on honor killing: “Honor killings on the rise,” by David Martin for Fox 35 News, September 3:

    [...] “Most Westerners wouldn’t understand that and wouldn’t even believe that people think that way,” says Robert Spencer, founder of JihadWatch.org .

    His website attempts to raise awareness about the activities of global jihadists. One of those activities is what’s called honor killings, a practice which has its roots in the Middle East, and is now happening in the West.

    “What they’re concerned about is restoring the purity of the family in this world, and they do that by eradicating the member that is stained,” says Spencer.

    Marriage infidelity, divorce, rejecting an arranged marriage, refusing to wear headscarves and homosexuality have all been reasons for which women and men have been killed.

    Even victims of rape have been victims of honor killings.

    “That is a stain on the family’s honor. Based on the assumption that the sullying of the purity of the girl, of the daughter in the family, is something that brings shame to the whole family, even though she had no responsibility for the action. It was something done to her. And to cleanse that stain, she has to be killed,” says Spencer.

    And the consequences in certain countries?

    “If you can convince a judge that you were committing an honor killing, then you will receive a substantially reduced sentence, or no time at all in prison,” says Spencer.

    The United Nations estimates that every year, 5,000 people become victims of honor killings. Just last year, in Georgia, a father strangled his daughter to death because she was planning a divorce from her husband.

    “I don’t have any doubt there will be more honor killings in the United States. That is a certainty. A 100% certainty about that because neither law enforcement authorities, nor government authorities, nor the Islamic community are doing anything to challenge the foundational assumptions that give rise to honor killings in the first place,” says Spencer.

    Spencer also believes that most people remain on the sidelines of the honor killing battlefield for fear of being labeled a racist or Islamophobe.

    http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/027441.php

    Thanks to people like DOIAD, people are afraid to speak the truth.

  286. Thuggish Hamas-linked CAIR tries to use Muslim victimhood incidents to shut down Internet and talk radio resistance to jihad

    The Council on American-Islamic Relations, which the Baltimore Sun never gets around to telling you is an unindicted co-conspirator in a Hamas funding case, has claimed that “anti-Muslim hate crimes” have risen sharply in the U.S. since 9/11. In fact, the rate of such crimes has actually dropped. They know well that victimhood is big business: insofar as they can claim protected victim status for Muslims in the U.S., they can deflect unwanted scrutiny and any critical examination of how jihadists use Islamic texts and teachings to justify violence and supremacism.

    That’s most likely why CAIR and others have not hesitated to stoop even to fabricating “hate crimes.” They want and need hate crimes against Muslims, because they can use them for political points and as weapons to intimidate people into remaining silent about the jihad threat.

    And that is what is happening here. The behavior of the non-Muslims in these two incidents, if reported accurately here, is wrong, inexcusable and unjustifiable by any standard. It is likewise inexcusable and unjustifiable to claim, as CAIR’s Honest Ibe Hooper does here, that these jerks were fired up by the Internet or talk radio, and not by the many, many acts of violence and hatred committed by Muslims in the name of Islam around the world every day. Not that one act of violence and hate justifies another, but if Hooper really wants to see these incidents stop (and as I explained above, he actually needs them), he would address the roots of jihad violence within Islamic communities, and not try to get non-Muslim anti-jihad outlets shut down.

    His statement here, meanwhile, is of a piece with the Organization of the Islamic Conference’s jihad against free speech. Nor is it the first time CAIR has revealed itself to be an enemy of free speech.

    “Muslim organization blames talk radio in attacks,” by Matthew Hay Brown for the Baltimore Sun, August 31 (thanks to Islam In Action):

    After attacks on Muslims in New York and California, a spokesman for the Council on American-Islamic Relations is targeting what he says is “growing anti-Muslim rhetoric” on the Internet and talk radio.

    CAIR is seeking federal hate crime charges in the attacks on a mother and daughter in Smithtown, N.Y., and a taxi driver in Pleasanton, Calif.

    In the New York incident, which occurred on Aug. 20, a Long Island man has been charged with second-degree aggravated harassment after threatening to kill and attempting to rundown the mother and daughter, each of whom was wearing an abaya, a black robe that covers the head and body.

    According to a report in Newsday by former Sun colleague Sumathi Reddy, the mother told police that she had been at a gas station when a man approached from behind and yelled, “Take that stuff off. What do you think it is, Halloween?”

    The woman said the man “kept striking a match on a matchbook like if I was to start pumping the gas he would throw the match at me.”

    The man said he had done nothing wrong, according to the Newsday report.

    “They shouldn’t be allowed to wear that around here,” he said in a statement to police. “This is not Iraq. They should not be dressing like that here. Send them back to Iraq.”

    In California, two men have been charged in the beating last week of taxi driver Jaswinder Bangar after he picked them up from a Pleasanton bar, according to a report in the San Jose Mercuary [sic] News. Police said the men called Bangar derogatory names as they punched him, breaking a tooth and causing lacerations that required several stitches to close.

    In a statement on Monday, CAIR spokesman Ibrahim Hooper said “Our nation’s religious, political and community leaders need to address the growing anti-Muslim rhetoric on the Internet and on talk radio that can lead to such incidents.”

    Honest Ibe doesn’t seem to realize how easy — yes, easy! — it would be to stamp out “anti-Muslim rhetoric” once and for all without destroying the freedom of speech. Here’s how. If Muslims want to end “anti-Muslim rhetoric” instantaneously, here’s how they can do it:

    1. Focus their indignation on Muslims committing violent acts in the name of Islam, not on non-Muslims reporting on those acts.
    2. Renounce definitively not just “terrorism,” but any intention to replace the U.S. Constitution (or the constitutions of any non-Muslim state) with Sharia even by peaceful means. In line with this, clarify what is meant by their condemnations of the killing of innocent people by stating unequivocally that American and Israeli civilians are innocent people.
    3. Teach Muslims the imperative of coexisting peacefully as equals with non-Muslims on an indefinite basis.
    4. Begin comprehensive international programs in mosques all over the world to teach against the ideas of violent jihad and Islamic supremacism.
    5. Actively work with Western law enforcement officials to identify and apprehend jihadists within Western Muslim communities.

    If Muslims do those five things, voila! “Anti-Muslim rhetoric” will no longer be heard anywhere. (But of course, then those useful “hate” incidents would dry up also, and then where would CAIR be?)

    http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/027430.php

    Leftists and islam do share some common values after all.

  287. Wafa Sultan: “As an Arab woman who suffered for three decades living under Islamic Sharia, it is clear to me that Islam’s political ideology and Sharia must be fought relentlessly by Western civilization to prevent its application in a free society”

    http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/027448.php

    But Wafa, we dont want to seem intolerant. We MUST tolerate intolerances to show how tolerant we really are.

  288. Italian authorities fear “radicalization” of prison inmates during Ramadan

    But it just can’t have anything to do with Islam — it’s overcrowding. Yeah, that explains everything. Or, if you don’t buy that, more on Ramadan and jihad can be found here. “Italy: Ramadan may be used to ‘recruit militants’ in prison,” from AdnKronos International, September 4:

    Rome, 4 Sept. (AKI) – The holy fasting month of Ramadan may provide fertile ground for recruiting militants in Italy’s already overcrowded prisons, according to a senior police official. Secretary-general of the Italian penitentiary police union (SAPPE), Donato Capace, said authorities were concerned that foreign prisoners may become radicalised due to the difficult conditions.

    “Of the 27,000 foreign detainees, one third of them are Muslim,” said Capace told Adnkronos.

    “The increase in tension in the situation of Afghanistan and Iraq could (also) have repercussions.

    “Due to the overcrowding in the cells and the high number of foreign detainees, with so many of them of the Islamic faith, the prison cell could become a place where petty criminals are tempted by jailed members of terror organisations,” said Capace.

    Although many of the detainees face restrictions such as not being able to pray beside their friends and family and have no access to traditional food during Ramadan, prison authorities are sensitive to the religious requirements of the inmates.

    Capace warned that those who support Islamic terrorism try to camouflage their activities by infiltrating their own faithful as well as unsuspecting detainees and even westerners.

    He referred to a case in 2001 and 2002, when a 29-year-old Italian who converted to Islam placed explosives in several places in Italy.

    “A Sicilian detainee converted to Islam in jail where he was serving a sentence for minor crimes, and after being set free he blew up two gas cylinders at the subway in Milan and at the Temple of Concord in Agrigento,” he said….

    http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/027464.php

    Those damn pesky converts getting it all wrong about islam.

    /Sarc

  289. Malaysia: Muslims rush to defend protesters who threatened violence if Hindu temple were built

    “Amid chants of ‘Allahuakbar,’ the group also left the severed head of a cow at the entrance of the State Secretariat here as a warning to Selangor Mentri Besar Tan Sri Khalid Ibrahim.” That is from this account. And now some Muslims who Misunderstand Islam in modern, moderate Malaysia want to defend these protesters, as a “jihad,” “Cow head demo: Malay NGO to defend Section 23 ‘jihad,’” by Syed Azhar for The Star, September 9:

    KOTA BARU: Malay non-governmental organisation Perkasa wants to provide legal counsel to the 12 “cow head protestors” who were charged with sedition and illegal assembly at the Shah Alam Sessions and Magistrates courts on Wednesday.

    Its president Datuk Ibrahim Ali said several lawyer members of the movement were willing to take up the case as a “jihad,” or any war undertaken in the name of Islam against unbelievers or backsliders.

    “We will also go on a donation drive to help them financially to pay for unforeseen expenses that they might incur during the trial proper.

    “We are not doing this as a publicity stunt or political mileage but for the sake of the Ummah (the community of believers) and to defend Allah’s religion,” he said in a press statement issued here on Wednesday.

    Ibrahim, who is also the independent Member of Parliament for Pasir Mas, criticised those in power, accusing them of being cowards for not protecting the religion.

    However, many Muslim and political leaders have condemned the incident…, saying such hatred and disrespect had no place in the religion….

    The protesters, besides stomping and spitting on a cow’s head, “warned of further action if the temple was built in their area, with one protest leader promising bloodshed.”

    http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/027502.php

    Tolerance

  290. Somali jihadists: “We lost a martyr who was from Minnesota in the overnight raid”

    “Ah, geez”: The Upper Midwest exports another jihadist. “Several Dead in Somali Clashes, Possibly Including U.S. Jihadist,” by Mohamed Ibrahim and Jeffrey Gettleman for the New York Times, September 7:

    MOGADISHU, Somalia — Fierce fighting exploded in this capital city on Friday night and Saturday morning, and witnesses said at least 10 people had been killed in the past two days, possibly including a Somali-American who had joined the insurgents.

    One battle began on Friday after soldiers from Somalia’s transitional government attacked an insurgent base with mortars and machine guns.

    “Soon after breaking fast,” said Fatima Elmi, a Mogadishu resident, referring to the evening Ramadan holiday ritual, “we heard strange noises of weapons and we ran into a concrete building nearby.”

    The government forces pushed back the insurgents, who belonged to an extremist Islamist group called the Shabab. But by Saturday morning, witnesses said, the Shabab had recaptured the territory and once again remained in firm control of most of Mogadishu.

    Among the dead was a Somali-American identified as Mohamed Hassan, 21, from Minnesota, according to Shabab fighters.

    “We lost a martyr who was from Minnesota in the overnight raid,” said a Shabab foot soldier. He did not provide any more information about when Mr. Hassan might have arrived in Somalia or what exactly he was doing.

    “Is that yer friend there in the suicide vest?”

    According to the F.B.I., dozens of Somali-Americans may have joined the Shabab jihadist movement, which American officials have accused of having links to Al Qaeda. At least one Somali-American killed himself in a suicide bombing last fall.

    In earlier fighting, witnesses said that eight people were killed Thursday when insurgents attacked an African Union base at a former military academy. The deputy mayor of the city, Abdifatah Ibrahim Shaaweeye, told reporters in a news conference on Friday that as soon as the holy month of Ramadan ended, the government would drive the insurgents out of the capital.

    “We will capture neighborhoods that are not government controlled,” he said.

    http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/027496.php

    Hmmmm what was he doing in Somolia?

  291. BTW Where was CAIR when Amina and Sarah were brutally murdered? They aiding in tracking down their scumbag father?

    Foe of freedom for Rifqa Bary supports Hamas, Hizballah…and is a member of CAIR

    This is Mohammad Lutfi, who disrupted the press conference that Pamela Geller, Jamal Jivanjee, Tom Trento and I held last Thursday outside the courthouse where another hearing on the Rifqa Bary case took place. Lutfi also lied about Islamic apostasy law, and is caught lying on the video above about his meeting with CAIR’s lawyers.

    Pamela also has found him comparing Osama bin Laden favorably to George W. Bush in 2004:

    On the other hand, you have Osama bin Laden, a Muslim Arab, saying that the United States is evil, anti-Arab, anti-Muslim and interested in controlling Arab land and oil and in maintaining brutal Arab dictators in power. Bin Laden is recruiting Muslims and Arabs to stand up and fight against their enemies — that’s Israel and America. As an Arab or Muslim listening to both Bush and bin Laden, whom should you believe and whom should you trust?…

    The support for Hamas and Hizballah is really no surprise, since CAIR officials have consistently declined to condemn either one as a terrorist group. Nonetheless, CAIR’s Ibrahim “Honest Ibe” Hooper seemed anxious to distance himself from Lutfi. He emailed me last Friday, asking, “And you [sic] evidence that Muhammad Lutfi represents CAIR is…??” Of course, I hadn’t said that Lutfi did represent CAIR, but in any case from the looks of this video Lutfi himself seems quite proud of his association with the un-indicted co-conspirators.

    In the course of our exchange Hooper kindly forwarded me CAIR’s statement on apostasy, which appears to affirm the freedom of conscience. But when I asked him to forward me CAIR’s specific statement in support of Rifqa Bary’s free conscience, he fell silent.

  292. BANDA ACEH, Indonesia —Indonesia’s staunchly Muslim Aceh province is set to enforce a strict form of Islamic criminal law, including stoning to death married adulterers, a lawmaker said on Wednesday.

    “Unmarried people who commit adultery will be caned one hundred times and married persons will be stoned to death,”Raihan Iskandar, a provincial lawmaker from the Islamic-based Prosperous Justice Party, told AFP.

    Aceh, where separatists had been fighting the Indonesian government since 1976 until a peace deal in 2005, has so far only partially adopted sharia law, which requires modest Muslim dress codes, mandatory prayers five times a day, fasting and the giving of alms to the poor.

    “This bill only focuses on ethical issues which include consumption of alcohol, gambling, committing adultery and raping,” Iskandar said.
    Nearly 90 percent of Indonesia’s 234 million people are Muslim,most of whom practise a moderate form of the religion.

    http://www.weaselzippers.net/blog/2009/09/indonesias-aceh-province-to-begin-stoning-adulterers-under-sharia-law.html

    Savages

  293. Gaza woman gets sex change, respect: “I prefer now to be male because this society privileges males over females. The women in our society are not respected…”

    Apparently Fatima — Odai — is, on top of everything else, a Misunderstander of Islam, or even maybe a Greasy Islamophobe. After all, who but such people thinks that an Islamic society doesn’t respect women? As everyone knows, “beat her” (Qur’an 4:34) in the original Arabic means “give her a hug.”

    “Gaza teen undergoes sex change operation,” from Reuters, September 10 (thanks to Michael):

    For fifteen years, Fatima Abed Rabbo lived as a girl in the northern Gaza neighborhood of Jabalya. She wore girl’s clothing, and went to an all-girl’s school.

    But shortly after turning 12, Fatima, now renamed Odai, recalls undergoing changes: “I was normal. I used to be a girl and my name was Fatima. Before my father found out and the doctors checked me, I felt like a girl. But after I turned 12 years old, I began feeling more like a boy than a girl.”

    Majd Abed Rabbo, Odai’s father, said that following several medical tests, a hormonal imbalance was detected in Odai. The results showed that Odai had high levels of testosterone and needed a sex-change operation….

    “I feel much more comfortable now, I feel like I was born again. I feel free. Anyway, I prefer now to be male because this society privileges males over females. The women in our society are not respected, and their ideas are not respected either. This society is much more acceptant of males than females,” said Odai.

    http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/027516.php

    I wonder why

  294. It’s Hell Stupid By: Bill Siegel
    FrontPageMagazine.com | Thursday, September 10, 2009

    Even before President Barack Obama assumed office, the liberal media embarked upon a massive effort to attribute the phenomena of suicide bombings to anything other than Islam. Now that Obama has begun to place his mark on the conflict formerly known as the “War on Terror” and the activities of those formerly known as “Jihadists,” these efforts have only gotten farther off of the mark.

    Not only has Obama displayed tremendous courage in fighting his “War on Words,” he and his media manipulator extraordinaire, David Axelrod, have unleashed the full weaponry of the mellow timbre to handle the conflicts we face with enemies we used to identify in part by their connection to Islam. By ceasing reference to “terror,” by eliminating thirteen hundred years of history in accepting the absurd notion that, to true Muslims, “Jihad” is a simple peaceable struggle against internal appetites and lusts much like that which Christians undertake during Lent, and by introducing pleasantly toned conversational style to engage and dialogue away all global conflict, Obama has certainly brought about one kind of “change”—if we change our grammar and tone we can eliminate all squabbles the West has had with the Muslim world. Camelot visits the Middle East.

    Further, Obama has sought to deploy his troops of amiable words in Cairo and elsewhere in the Muslim world. He armed his new under secretary of state for public diplomacy and public affairs, Judith A. McHale, with familiar calls for “building bridges” between America and the Muslim world. Unfortunately, Pakistani journalist Ansar Abbasi responded, “You should know we hate all Americans… From the bottom of our souls, we hate you.” No worry. Obama sent in his reinforcements in the form of a congenial Ramadan Message to Muslims worldwide.

    In addition, the media has followed suit by virtually banning most relevant references to Islam and Muslims. It recently refused to label French Muslim protesters as “Muslim.” It only reluctantly, if ever, conflates “Muslim” with any intention to terrorize. And mostly, it is allergic to ever mentioning Islam other than to honor it.

    http://www.frontpagemag.com/readArticle.aspx?ARTID=36229

    Great article that Dodger will dodge

  295. UK Muslims attack 9/11 remembrance rally

    This is what it has come to: “The police can’t handle the Muslim counter-demonstrators. The senior sergeant said that he doesn’t want any of his policemen killed.”

    Note that the SIOE demonstration didn’t even take place. The people who were responsible for the violence were the Muslim counter-demonstrators. There is an awful lot of passive voice in this egregious BBC story, but what happened is still more or less clear. The mainstream media only generally breaks out the passive voice in large quantities when it doesn’t want to identify the perpetrators — after all, one wouldn’t want to appear “Islamophobic,” eh wot?

    “Eight arrested in mosque protest,” from the BBC, September 11 (thanks to all who sent this in):

    Eight people have been arrested during a demonstration outside a mosque in north-west London where an anti-Islamic protest was planned.

    About 1,000 people gathered outside Harrow Central Mosque as activists from Stop Islamification of Europe planned to demonstrate outside the mosque.

    Unite Against Fascism were also present to “defend the mosque”, they said.

    So it’s “fascist” to oppose the spread of an ideology that would extinguish free speech, freedom of conscience, and the equality of rights of women with men and of people of all creeds? Tell me another.

    Bricks, bottles and firecrackers were thrown at police officers who are present in riot gear at the scene.

    These were thrown by the Muslims. Pamela has photos.

    Just after 2000 BST, police said there were a small number of people in the area. Mobile patrols are continuing in a bid to reassure residents.

    Earlier, hundreds of youths, some covering their faces with scarves, were in the area and there were skirmishes with police as some demonstrators broke a police cordon.

    “Youths” — heretofore this code word for Islamic jihadist thugs was restricted to continental usage.

    ‘Saddened and dismayed’

    Stop Islamification of Europe (SIOE) said they planned a “peaceful protest” against the building of a five-storey mosque next to the Harrow Central Mosque.

    But in a message on their website SIOE said the protest had been called off and organiser Stephen Gash had been arrested.

    The posting read: “If you are on your way to the demo, don’t go, it’s being called off right now.

    “The police can’t handle the Muslim counter-demonstrators. The senior sergeant said that he doesn’t want any of his policemen killed.”

    Seven people were arrested for possession of offensive weapons including a hammer, a chisel and bottles of bleach.

    Police believe these arrests were not linked to the SIOE protest.

    Another person was arrested to prevent a breach of the peace, police said.

    Police also stopped a number of people, who they believed were heading for the anti-Islamist protest, from getting to the protest area.

    “If the SIOE demonstration started it would have resulted in serious disorder,” a statement from police said….

    And so SIOE leader Stephen Gash was “arrested to prevent a breach of the peace.” Think about that for a moment. “Arrested to prevent a breach of the peace.”

    http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/027529.php#respond

    Yes, think about that Dodger and DOIAD. Care to spin this away?

  296. Increasing numbers of British nationals traveling to Somalia to join jihad

    “A mixture of British people, from numerous backgrounds.” Huh. Anglican cat fanciers? Agnostic numismatists? In any event, the fact that they’re from “numerous backgrounds” again demonstrates the centrality of the jihadist ideology to the conflict, rather than mere “tribal” or “nationalistic” issues.

    “More Britons travel to Somalia for ‘jihad': report,” from Agence France-Presse, September 13:

    Intelligence chiefs have warned British Prime Minister Gordon Brown’s government that Somalia is the next challenge in efforts to stem Islamic terrorism, a report said Sunday.

    The officials have warned that the number of young Britons travelling to Somalia to fight in the war-torn country or take part in “terror training camps” is rising, the Independent on Sunday said, citing unnamed sources.

    In particular, they are concerned about the number of people with no direct family connection to Somalia who are travelling there.

    The number travelling there every year has more than quadrupled to at least 100 since 2004, according to the newspaper.

    “I have seen figures that are not in the public domain that suggest there is an increasing flow of young Britons into Somalia,” said opposition Conservative MP Patrick Mercer, chairman of the counter-terrorism subcommittee.

    “There is now a mixture of British people, from numerous backgrounds, who are heading out there and that is causing great concern.”…

    http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/027534.php

    Gee why to muslims from one country feel the need to fight jihad in another? Any ideas?

  297. Pakistan: Incited at Friday prayers, Muslims burn church over new case of alleged “blasphemy”

    “According to preliminary reports, the real cause of tension is a relationship between a twenty year old Christian, whose name is Fanish, and a Muslim girl.”

    “Punjab, Muslim extremists burn church over alleged blasphemy case,” by Fareed Khan for AsiaNews, September 12:

    Sialkot (AsiaNews) – A church burnt by a mob of angry Muslims, who attacked Christians for a new – alleged – case of blasphemy. This is what happened yesterday afternoon in a village in Punjab, Pakistan, where the Christian community was targeted by Islamic extremists.

    “The extremists were protesting against the desecration of the Quran by a young Christian from the village” Father Emmanuel Yousaf Mani, director of the Catholic Churches National Commission for Justice and Peace (NCJP) refers to AsiaNews, “that is why they set fire to the church”. The priest, who heard the eye witness accounts of the inhabitants, adds that “the place of worship is used by Catholics and Protestants”.

    NCJP sources report that yesterday, at about 12:30 local time, a Muslim mob gathered round the village church in Jaithikey, not far from the city of Samberial in the district of Sialkot (Punjab). They first damaged the building, then set it on fire. The extremists also looted two houses adjoining the church.

    According to preliminary reports, the real cause of tension is a relationship between a twenty year old Christian, whose name is Fanish, and a Muslim girl. The young man was accused of having “provoked” the girl and “throwing away the Koran [the girl] had in her hands”.

    “Muslims can not tolerate a Muslim girl falling in love with a Christian,” says father Mani, confirming the news of the young man’s arrest this morning by police officers. “The authorities – adds the priest – will not allow access to journalists, to verify the events firsthand”.

    A statement released by NCJP explains that “The tense situation precipitated following the end of Friday prayers,” when a call to action “to give a lesson to the Christians” was launched from the mosque. Following the announcement, at least 35 families left the village for security reasons; others decided to remain in their homes anyway.

    The police reached the village, while the crowd of Muslims gathered, wiping [sic] themselves up into a frenzy over the – alleged – case of desecration of the Koran. In the evening, the extremists were driven from the homes of Christian villagers, but hundreds remained in the area, under police surveillance.

    Father Emmanuel Yousaf Mani, NCJP national director, Kamran Michael, the Provincial Minister for Human Rights and Minorities and Nelson Azeem, a member of the National Assembly (the parliament of Pakistan) arrived in Samerial and, in close contact with local government and police, are following the evolution of events.

    After the attack on Gojra in early August, in which seven people were killed, there is a real risk of a new massacre against the Christian community in the name of the blasphemy law.

    http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/027533.php

    Why muslims feel the need to burn down churches? Any ideas?

  298. (Guardian)- Iraqi militias infiltrate internet gay chatrooms to hunt their quarry – and hundreds are feared to be victims.

    Sitting on the floor, wearing traditional Islamic clothes and holding an old notebook, Abu Hamizi, 22, spends at least six hours a day searching internet chatrooms linked to gay websites. He is not looking for new friends, but for victims.

    “It is the easiest way to find those people who are destroying Islam and who want to dirty the reputation we took centuries to build up,” he said. When he finds them, Hamizi arranges for them to be attacked and sometimes killed.

    Hamizi, a computer science graduate, is at the cutting edge of a new wave of violence against gay men in Iraq. Made up of hardline extremists,Hamizi’s group and others like it are believed to be responsible for the deaths of more than 130 gay Iraqi men since the beginning of the year alone.

    The deputy leader of the group, which is based in Baghdad, explained its campaign using a stream of homophobic invective.”Animals deserve more pity than the dirty people who practise such sexual depraved acts,” he told the Observer. “We make sure they know why they are being held and give them the chance to ask God’s forgiveness before they are killed.”

    The killings are brutal, with victims ritually tortured. Azhar al-Saeed’s son was one. “He didn’t follow what Islamic doctrine tells but he was a good son,” she said. “Three days after his kidnapping, I found a note on my door with blood spread over it and a message saying it was my son’s purified blood and telling me where to find his body.”

    She went with police to find her son’s remains. “We found his body with signs of torture, his anus filled with glue and without his genitals,” she said. “I will carry this image with me until my dying day.”

    http://www.weaselzippers.net/blog/2009/09/iraq-islamist-militias-using-internet-chat-rooms-to-find-gays-to-track-down-and-kill.html

    Why do muslims feel the need to execute gays?

  299. Pakistani Misunderstanders of Islam torture, murder Christian imprisoned for “blasphemy”

    Here is yet another example of how Pakistan’s blasphemy laws are used to abuse and terrorize religious minorities in that country. “Punjab: young Christian man accused of blasphemy killed in prison,” by Fareed Khan for Asia News, September 15 (thanks to C. Cantoni):

    http://64.130.13.128/2009/09/pakistani-misunderstanders-of-islam-torture-murder-christian-imprisoned-for-blasphemy.html

  300. Morocco: Dissident receives 100 death threats in a week for defying daytime eating ban for Ramadan

    “There is no compulsion in religion,” (Qur’an 2:256) except when there is. And that time comes when the implementation of Sharia is strong enough to impose criminal punishments for the neglect of religious observances: i.e., when the time for the soft sell is over.

    http://www.jihadwatch.org/2009/09/morocco-dissident-receives-100-death-threats-in-a-week-for-defying-daytime-eating-ban-for-ramadan.html

    I thought islam was compassionate and tolerant

  301. Fitzgerald: Where In the World is the “Center” of the “War On Terrorism”?

    Somalia is the next challenge in efforts to stem Islamic terrorism, a report said Sunday.” — from a news article at Agence-France Presse here.

    Let’s see. For many years, until just the day before yesterday, Iraq was “the central front” in the “war on terror.”

    But now the theatre of war has mysteriously moved more than a thousand miles eastward, and the theatregoers — chiefly American soldiers and civilians — have packed up and moved over to Afghanistan, which with neighboring Pakistan, constitutes Af-Pak. And it is Af-Pak that is now “the central front” in the “war on terror.”

    But for how long? If the Shi’a Zaidis in northern Yemen defeat the government forces, and that would worry the Saudi government, won’t the Saudis then tell the Americans that they have to take care of Yemen too (otherwise “we, your good friends, will be in trouble, and you wouldn’t want that”)? Then Yemen may very well then come to constitute, after Af-Pak, or perhaps quickly being substituted for it, the “central front” in the “war on terror.”

    http://www.jihadwatch.org/2009/09/fitzgerald-where-in-the-world-is-the-center-of-the-war-on-terrorism.html

    Too many centers to keep track of

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